The "E" word

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Grandpa
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The "E" word

Post by Grandpa »

I've been trying to think about how to introduce a subject that I wouldn't touch when young: Economics.

It's not what you might think anymore.
Words like "Supply Side Economics" or "Deficit" or other such phrases aren't even used.
Game Theory (yes, GAME THEORY) has changed all that.

    Consider the 'economics' of marriage for instance, and by this I'm not talking about balancing checkbooks but instead looking at
  • Why females (and especially young black females) are less likely to marry than they were in 'my day'.
  • Or as another example why is divorce good for women?
  • How did the pill drive men toward dropping out of college?
Economics just ain't what it used to be.

Hoping there is enough interest within the members of the forum to at least read a link or two:
How the Pill Drove Men to Drop Out of College
An article written by Tim Harford on the 15th of January, 2008.
Published on Notable,
Found > HERE <

Divorce Is Good for Women
An article written by Tim Harford on the 16th of January, 2008
Published on Slate,
Found > HERE <
Tim Harford is THE UNDERCOVER ECONOMIST
and author of the book The Economic Mysteries of Life.

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daemon225
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Re: The "E" word

Post by daemon225 »

very well done grandpa
QUIT!!!(not sro....)

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Re: The "E" word

Post by Verfo »

DIVORCE = BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD

all the kids that get in trouble and dont care in my school, their parents are divorce
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Grandpa
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Re: The "E" word

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Verfo wrote:DIVORCE = BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD

all the kids that get in trouble and dont care in my school, their parents are divorce
I wholeheartedly agree with you. The article is very informative though. It is written from a strict 'economist' point of view.

There is new territory for economists - it's not just about Gross National Product anymore. One other example compares a seemingly irrational choice of a prostitutes to not use a condom and engage in unprotected sex. Economists interviewed many working girls and discovered that they would often leave a condom unused in exchange for a 25 per cent increase in pay. That may strike you as likely to be a result of their lack of education, until you discover that the danger money negotiated by the prostitutes was very similar to the premium in pay received by lumberjacks, soldiers, firefighters and other people in risky professions. They risk their lives for money, but it’s carefully calculated, well-informed and disturbingly rational risk.

You have the 'right' of it about divorce (of course). Economics don't balance against heartache. Still, it is an enlightening article. Question, did you even read it? :(

~Granps

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Re: The "E" word

Post by Verfo »

i skimmed and scanned it, btw money cause many problems and it might lead to death, like not having protected sex then get all kind of stds
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Re: The "E" word

Post by Squirt »

In my opinion propaganda is a big cause for this. With all the * Requirement* to be the perfect woman it really drives woman of today crazy to be the best. Some woman will go o great lenghts to be perfect and even the littlest detail like there husband no noticing that they put eyeliner or a her hair has a new hairstyle can drive modern day woman crazy.

So the fight to be liked/loved is a big cause of it.
Image
Spoiler!

woutR wrote:Squirt, you're a genius when it comes to raping women.

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Grandpa
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Re: The "E" word

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Verfo wrote:i skimmed and scanned it, btw money cause many problems and it might lead to death, like not having protected sex then get all kind of stds
What about the rational behind being an alcoholic from an economists view? The heavy drinker who downs another shot of whiskey, how is this rational?

It won’t surprise you to hear that when taxes on alcohol rise, people cut back on drinking a little. What is surprising is that alcoholics respond to high alcohol prices more than anyone else. We know this by looking at medical records: when alcohol price rise, cases of liver damage fall much more dramatically than the total consumption of booze. The alcoholic is not in complete control of himself, but he knows when his habit has become so expensive that cold turkey is the rational option.

Or the problem of delinquency and crime amongst the young? Some 'old school' might talk about jail not being a deterrent but it is effective because if the criminal is behind bars he isn't hurting YOU. Fact is though, kids look much more closely at courts and penalties than what one might think. They know there is stiffer penalties for adults. In the places where the difference between adult and juvenile punishment is especially sharp, teenage crime drops dramatically when the teenagers are old enough to go to an adult prison. In the places where juveniles and adults are treated similarly, they behave similarly. That scary kid in the hoodie may be a nasty piece of work, but he’s still a rational criminal.

I'm quoting THE UNDERCOVER ECONOMIST here for a reason. There are rational choices that explain why 'we' do things. You've said 'divorce is bad, bad, bad', and I agree. Maybe understanding more about the 'why' of divorce could help us avoid it.

I'll post more if you're interested.

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Re: The "E" word

Post by Misaklo »

I'm very interested. I'm afraid i haven't gotten a chance to read the articles :( but i will get to them ASAP.

I'm beginning to take quite a liking to you gramps :P I like the way you think, a lot like myself in fact.
"Everybody defamates from miles away,But face to face, they haven't got a thing to say!" -Slipknot
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Grandpa
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Re: The "E" word

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Misaklo wrote:I'm very interested. I'm afraid i haven't gotten a chance to read the articles :( but i will get to them ASAP.

I'm beginning to take quite a liking to you gramps :P I like the way you think, a lot like myself in fact.
Thank you kindly.
I'm quoting the articles quite liberally because of their educational benefit. When I stumbled onto them they got me to thinking, you know.

Whom you marry depends on where you live, but also on how old you are and what race you are. Most people marry people of the same race, of a similar age and from the same area. 96 percent of married black women have black husbands, and over 96 percent of married white women have white husbands.
__________________________________________________________________________________________

What might cause an imbalance in some of these local marriage markets? Imbalances in cities might be caused by unskilled young men rationally deciding to give up and move to the country, or stay there in the first place. But another major reason for men being absent from local marriage markets is prison. There are two million men in US prisons and just 100,000 women; and the men in prison are spread unevenly across age, race and geography. Huge numbers of young black men are in prison, and that is bound to pose a problem for the young black women they might otherwise have married.

In New Mexico, for example, 30 percent of young black men, aged 20-35, are in prison (or, less commonly, in a secure mental institution). That is an extreme case, but there are 32 states with more than one in ten young black men in prison, and ten states where one in six young black men are behind bars. That is a serious business for young black women.

According to economists Kerwin Kofi Charles and Ming Ching Luoh, where a large number of a particular racial group is in prison, women of the same age and race in that state do not enjoy the gains from marriage, or a stable relationship, that women in a more equitable situation do.
Charles and Luoh show that young black women facing a shortage of men try to increase their attractiveness as marriage prospects. The more men are in prison, the more likely women are to get themselves a job, and the more likely they are to go to college. College-educated people are much more likely to marry other college-educated people, so an education doesn't just make you smart, it wins you a smart husband or wife.

Improving their bargaining position in the marriage market is, of course, not the only likely reason for these decisions. Since the high incarceration rates of young black men mean young black women are less likely to marry, a college degree and a job look like a rational investment for a single girl who can't rely on a partner as a source of income. What's more, the likelihood of young black women not marrying is greatly exacerbated by another trend: it appears that young black men who are not in prison typically take advantage of their strong bargaining position by not bothering to marry at all.

From the above we see:
Factors that contribute to dilemma of young black women include:
There are more African Americans in US jails and of those more males incarcerated than female. A competitive market is created.
Women then compete by increasing their attractiveness, getting jobs and enrolling in college.
This then has a negative effect when men realize they can be lazy and still get the benefits.
It’s a 1:3 ratio where one percentage point rise in the proportion of young black men in prison reduces the proportion of young black women who have ever been married by three percentage points.
In areas where there are 20% - 30% of young black men in jail the marriage statistic is dramatic.

The situation gets 'worse' though.
There are a lot of African-American single moms around, and some commentators are inclined to blame this fact on "black culture" — whatever that phrase might mean.
But "black culture" doesn't explain why the single moms are disproportionately in the states where lots of young black men are in prison.
Economics does: women's bargaining power is badly dented by the imprisonment of potential husbands.

I wish this information was available to me when I was a kid.
I'm still trying to make sense of what I continue to see as an insane world. :oops:

~Grandpa

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Misaklo
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Re: The "E" word

Post by Misaklo »

Yes, it is a very interesting chain of conclusions indeed.

I've managed to find the time to read the articles fully (somehow) and this Harford seems to be quite the genius. I'm very thankful to have such easy access to information like this being as young as I am (almost 16 as it is). In fact, I'm not sure I could get by with the systems around 20 or so years ago, as far as information transfer is concerned.

On another note, is it just me, or is the new forum coding a lot more annoying when it comes to making new posts. I'll admit i haven't been around here for a while, so i might be mistaken, but i seem to remember it being a lot more... easily readable perhaps? something just seems a little off :\
"Everybody defamates from miles away,But face to face, they haven't got a thing to say!" -Slipknot
no longer really playing, hopeing to get back on to a private server of some sort.

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