Kanji Question

[Grandpa]

Any Kanji experts here?
Am trying to find the exact definition of:


What I know so far (from various dictionaries):

1. [old character] god
2. Chi (no-way)
3. Ko (? in hiragana or in katakana)

Maybe Ko needs dakuten?
but what I 'get' from this is, "Are you sure there is no god?"
- or maybe Coca-Cola (ko) company isn't god? <~~~~(j/k)
Can expert confirm this?

~Grandpa

[Doron]

lol...

Kinda cool kanji...

If it means god, I'd take it... but maybe it's buddha?

[Grandpa]

lol...

Kinda cool kanji...

If it means god, I'd take it... but maybe it's buddha?

The first character is difficult because because recent japanese-kanji dictionaries are not supposed to have this one! at least not with the radical written the way it is.


~Grandpa

[Cruor]

神チこ = God saw Ji, according to Google.

[Grandpa]

神チこ = God saw Ji, according to Google.

Hey Curor!
Can you help me learn how you searched it?
http://whiteknightlogic.net/kanjidb/sea ... search.php

[Cruor]

I just looked it up by the radical in IME Pad.

[Jstar1]

it says kamichiko but I don't think it makes any sense.

[Grandpa]

I just looked it up by the radical in IME Pad.

http://whiteknightlogic.net/kanjidb/kan ... /kbfc0.php <~~~ 200 sample compounds

( You will note the first radical ≠ 神 )
I can't find the first "character" in any of my Kanji dictionaries, at least not with the radical written the way it is. The second character is the Katakana "Chi" and the third is the Hiragana "Ko". A single Katakana (that is not a foreign word) following a Kanji character followed by a Hiragana character is weird. This one is [Old Character] for "God", and it's not used anymore in Japan. For those without East Asian Language Support installed it looks like a 'T' with a hat and two arms.

Real sorry if you already know, I just wanted to inform.


~Grandpa

[Grandpa]

it says kamichiko but I don't think it makes any sense.

Greetings, Jstar1

TY for helping
Cruor typed kami-chi-ko
But not kami (animistic God or spirit in the Shinto)
different

[Nantosh]

Well, first off, I'm partially fluent in Japanese (Passed with flying colors JPLT4).
Now, on to the main topic, that Kanji is not real anymore, nor is it indexed at Denshi Jisho or in IME code. True, the kanji for God pops up when you do it, but that does not mean that's what it is. The fact that is not listed at all proves that it most likely isn't, infact, an old Kanji for God. Out dated Kanji is almost always listed and should have showed up on Denshi. If, however, it is, then チこ　could be either チ子　meaning "blood child" or the name ちこ which in Romanji is Chiko oooooorrrr, it could be a misspell of Check Republic (チッエコ) but I severly doubt the latter. Blood Child would be my best guess, and as for the Kanji, I have no idea. It's not real. Just go with かみ (god) if you need to...)

^ ^

Then again, it could be a Chinese Kanji, but teh writing below it is 100% Japanese, so it wouldn't make sense....

^ ^

[Grandpa]

Well, first off, I'm partially fluent in Japanese (Passed with flying colors JPLT4).
Now, first off, that Kanji is not real anymore, nor is it indexed at Denshi Jisho or in IME code. True, the kanji for God pops up when you do it, but that does not mean that's what it is. The fact that is not listed at all proves that it most likely isn't, infact, an old Kanji for God. Out dated Kanji is almost always listed and should have showed up on Denshi. If, however, it is, then チこ　could be either チ子　meaning "blood child" or the name ちこ which in Romanji is Chiko oooooorrrr, it could be a misspell of Check Republic (チッエコ) but I severly doubt the latter. Blood Child would be my best guess, and as for the Kanji, I have no idea. It's not real. Just go with かみ (god) if you need to...)

^ ^

Then again, it could be a Chinese Kanji, but teh writing below it is 100% Japanese, so it wouldn't make sense....

^ ^

TY kindly, Nantosh
I know it doesn't make 'sense'
and I like "blood child" very much

I like [CLICK HERE ~~>]#7 from 柔らかみ
やわらかみ (EDICT) (n)
(touch of) softness also but not as much

My son (IRL) calls himself "Sunsblood" because his concept was 'if the sun exploded and cried blood and that blood was the fireworks that formed him'. His concept of 'sonship' is rooted in Judaism and includes "Red" as in Reuben (eldest son of Jacob and Leah).

Maybe Ko needs dakuten
a hint that the theory behind this kind of spelling device originally came from China
add a ten-ten to 'ko' to help (maybe) looks like a US Degree symbol in upper right.

TY again.

[Nantosh]

I just realized how badly I worded the second sentence...
Change that Grandpa... > >

[Cruor]

Okay, I have no idea what you guys are talking about, but here's something I found about it:

示 sacral matters are written with four (or five) strokes to the left 福 and standard on the bottom 祟

So is it true that the character simply does not exist, or could it simply be a stylistic choice, like dotting zeros or adding serifs?

(Just curious.)

[Grandpa]

Okay, I have no idea what you guys are talking about, but here's something I found about it:

示 sacral matters are written with four (or five) strokes to the left 福 and standard on the bottom 祟

So is it true that the character simply does not exist, or could it simply be a stylistic choice, like dotting zeros or adding serifs?

(Just curious.)

The first character of my top image does no longer exist. (the one that looks like a 'T' with a hat and two arms).
It's kinda like ?chiko.
I am wondering if it would be 'proper' to annotate the 'ko' with a 'stylistic' to hint the origins (yes, like dotting zeros or adding serifs). For example, if you touched your voicebox (larynx) and pronounced 'zzzzzz' then pronounced 'ssssss' the "Z" would be 'voiced" where the 's' would not - you can feel the vibration on one but not the other.

more about radicals here ~~~> http://japanese.about.com/library/weekly/aa070101a.htm


There are many problems associated with putting together a kanji for a tat. For instance, one of my pseudonyms is Sparrowhawke (based on the American Kestrel and a translation literal of the meaning of my IRL name (the 'bird guy'). But there are no words for predatory sparrow type hawk. Especially none for those who do not attack in flight. It would have to become a concept to be expressed and thereby arise 'difficulties'. I can find for Eurasian sparrowhawk (Accipiter nisus), but none for 'me'.

~Grandpa

[Nantosh]

Okay, I have no idea what you guys are talking about, but here's something I found about it:

示 sacral matters are written with four (or five) strokes to the left 福 and standard on the bottom 祟

So is it true that the character simply does not exist, or could it simply be a stylistic choice, like dotting zeros or adding serifs?

(Just curious.)

No. The Kanji does not exist in the Japanese language.
As to what Grandpa is saying, I'm lost and you make no sense ^ ^

Oh, and btw, adding dots would change the meaning. For example, adding two dots in type would result in the letter ご　or go if romanized. To be honest, I would just do　チ子。

Lolz, 3rd EDIT - I'm pretty sure you have no idea what your talking about Grandpa...
First, no need to learn radicals unless you don't have the intawebs. Just use Denshi Jisho's Kanji by Radical option and your fine. And secondly, you can't just throw together Kanji fool... > >

[Grandpa]

Okay, I have no idea what you guys are talking about, but here's something I found about it:

示 sacral matters are written with four (or five) strokes to the left 福 and standard on the bottom 祟

So is it true that the character simply does not exist, or could it simply be a stylistic choice, like dotting zeros or adding serifs?

(Just curious.)

No. The Kanji does not exist in the Japanese language.
As to what Grandpa is saying, I'm lost and you make no sense ^ ^

Oh, and btw, adding dots would change the meaning. For example, adding two dots in type would result in the letter ご　or go if romanized. To be honest, I would just do　チ子。

Lolz, 3rd EDIT - I'm pretty sure you have no idea what your talking about Grandpa...
First, no need to learn radicals unless you don't have the intawebs. Just use Denshi Jisho's Kanji by Radical option and your fine. And secondly, you can't just throw together Kanji fool... > >

What I'm speaking of comes from another discussion that I've had (on a different forum) with a master. I am sorry if I do not say this 'right'. The information about learning radicals is just for information purpose. Please don't call names here.

You are correct of course about me not know what I'm trying to say, but from what I understand pronunciation diacritic or diacritical mark (accents) can be used to hint that the theory behind this kind of spelling device originally came from China, where consonant sounds were traditionally described by terms such as clear, half-clear, muddy, and so on. I want to put symbol in that says "muddy". Doesn't Denshi Jisho's presuppose a considerable degree of literacy in Japanese?

(And don't know how to go about it).

[Nantosh]

Didn't call any names ^ ^

You know... if you're the guy who is giving the tatoo artist his information on Kanji, I think you should stop.

Anyways, for Sparrowhawke, you could do 雀鷹, or 雀男　for Hawk Guy ^ ^
If you want a specific kind of Sparrow, then give me a wiki link to its name ^ ^

EDIT - Read the second half of your post... > >
I know only of Japanese. There is no such thing as clear, muddy, ect in Japanese. Sorry ^ ^

[Grandpa]

Didn't call any names ^ ^

You know... if you're the guy who is giving the tatoo artist his information on Kanji, I think you should stop.

Anyways, for Sparrowhawke, you could do 雀鷹, or 雀男　for Hawk Guy ^ ^
If you want a specific kind of Sparrow, then give me a wiki link to its name ^ ^

EDIT - Read the second half of your post... > >
I know only of Japanese. There is no such thing as clear, muddy, ect in Japanese. Sorry ^ ^

Smile - lol, thanks again for speaking to me of this.

[Edited for accuracy]
Okay, the whole story includes a discussion that I had with a guy that designs tats, but he does not live nearby. I am a retired Systems Analyst and my travels took me to the San Diego area. I spoke to a very old guy (named 'Jun') and he could write in Japanese and Chinese. He drew the character for me and I 'gimped' it. (I've posted it before on other forums). From my understanding there are ways to include annotations that refer back to Chinese pronunciation (that's where the clear, unclear and muddy comes in). I've been pointed me to Wiki information on Dakuten. My guess (from other conversations) is

the kun-yomi pronunciation of the character 濁 is nigori; hence the daku-ten may also be called the nigori-ten.

The sidenote about "Sparrowhawk" is just that. Falco sparverius can be found > here
He said that there were no 'sparrows' like that that he could design. My literal name means "Grandson of Sparrowhawk". It was a sidenote during the conversation with him. My son isn't interested in 'our' name so much, hence he won't use it. I am though so if you are able and don't mind, I'd appreciate it.

Spoiler!

[EDIT to reply re: Sparrowhawk]

Well, in Japanese, Falco sparverius is アメリカ長元坊。On and Kun reading are present in the Japanese language btw, 音読みと訓読み。 Beyond that I can't really help you with Chinese, but if you want Falco sparverius　guy then just add 男 to the end ^ ^

Thank you for that. What I was trying to illustrate is the difficulty encountered when speaking to experts especially regarding Tattoos.
The word / expression that I was looking for comes from an Anglo word that non-literally means "The grandson or great grandson of a person who worked for a Lord taking care of birds especially smaller hawk-like birds but attack to protect their nests primarily and don't take prey in flight."

The problem is that the category of "Sparrowhawk" has changed over the centuries. Falcons with smaller tapered wings are no longer classified as 'hawks' so my question becomes "Given this, what would a Chinese character look like for a word that didn't exist look like?"

But that, like I said, was a sidenote.

Thanks once again,
~Grandpa

[Nantosh]

Well, in Japanese, Falco sparverius is アメリカ長元坊。On and Kun reading are present in the Japanese language btw, 音読みと訓読み。 Beyond that I can't really help you with Chinese, but if you want Falco sparverius　guy then just add 男 to the end ^ ^

GL ^ ^

[Grandpa]

Ok, thanks again. Part of my 'problem' is that I have translation software on my PDA. I've found (and befriended) Chinese help too but they like to speak to me because they are ESL3 or so. Difficult to express things to friends like "diacritical marks in Japanese brush writing" because we are both working with dictionaries to understand each other. Are you familiar with 大漢和辞典, Dai Kan-Wa jiten ("Comprehensive Chinese-Japanese Dictionary")? I'm thinking I need somebody who is.

"Four corner method" for encoding Chinese characters shows the shape of the Chinese character 小 < but I'm not sure you can read it. Three stroke character looks like downstroke and two arms encoded as #9. I am way beyond my depth here but more information can be found > http://www.answers.com/topic/four-corner-method
and http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%B0%8F

I'm theorizing part of the symbol is meaning 'man with arms down' meaning 'insignificant'.
cu88 My ESL3 friend is from playing Blizzard Diablo game. He is fluent in Cantonese and Mandarin and what he calls 'HK'. He can't read Japanese though. We are part of the CT (China Team) there. I played with him (Herman) for almost a year speaking in eng chat shorthand before he understood that I wasn't Chinese. His curiosity about my name (Sparrowhawk) was based on his interest in becoming a pilot and the USAF missile by that name.

音読み hiragana おんよみ, romaji on'yomi would work methinks because it is based on pronunciation of the Japanese Chinese dialects at the time the word was introduced into Japanese

~Grandpa

p.s.
I've written to Xxxxxx Xxx [Edited to remove personal information] (she has translated Japanese for Law Firms) about it and will post an update when I get her response. (Even if it makes me look like a fool because that would come as no surprise) She holds the rank of yon-dan (forth degree) from the Nihon Shuji (The Japan Calligraphy Education Foundation) and is qualified to teach Japanese calligraphy. Click spoiler to view my message:

Spoiler!

[Nantosh]

Well, 大漢和辞典 doesn't ring any bells... especially since it's to do with Chinese...
Secondly, 小 means small, but is not a complete word. In Japanese, the word for small would be 小さい, or chiisai in romanji. There are, of course, different pronunciations of each Kanji, based on 音読みと訓読み。 Japanese, unlike Chinese, which has only Kanji characters, uses hirigana and katakana for grammar and such, so I wouldn't think your friend could read Japanese. However, as he has a huge lexicon in Kanji, which is the same except for readings and a few exceptions in Japanese and Chinese, he would most likely be able to easily master the language ^ ^
BTW, I would go with your truly fluent friend (TRANSLATE FOR LAW FIRMS! FUUUUUUUUUCCCCCKKKKK) as she sounds extremely experienced... > >

Oh, and your diagnosis of the kanji 小　is about right. For example, the kanji for sun evolved from a round sun with lines as light, to a circle with a line in it, to 日。Many Japanese books help show the origin and reasons why Kanji are the way they are, just gotta look for em ^ ^