What the hell? How can you be against torturing subjects AND veto some legislation to stop torturing them? I just can't believe this how can this be the "man of the people?" I for one do not support water-boarding. Shit. This makes me mad as hell. It's times like this when I really agree with Ron Paul's war policy, that people hate the US cause the US are being morons.
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:11 am
by BrokenSaint
farking A. Just WTH.
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:12 am
by Reise
I'm pretty sure it's widely understood that GWB is a fuckwit.
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:16 am
by SaoKill
WHat's WaterBoarding?
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:20 am
by Sharp324
Psychological torture has always been better...idk why they still do physical.
However they wouldnt think twice about doing it to Americans in the first place, was talking to a military IT professional about it now. Exact words.
" You don't want my view - it's certainly not politically correct since the fuckers wouldn't think twice to doing worse to Americans." "I remember the fuckers in Fallujah beheading US contractors and putting the heads on a bridge - **** em."
Dont say he judged them all either, he got his knee blew out by a suicide bomber but never was prejudice about them, he knows there are some bad ones there but good ones too...just saying
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:34 am
by dom
Ben Stein wrote:I am going to get straight to the point. Something is terribly wrong with media coverage of the war in Iraq. The media hysteria about Iraq and the prisoners reached a crescendo last Friday when another network breathlessly disclosed that American guards at Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad had stomped on the toes of suspected Iraqi terrorists to make them more likely to talk about murders of Americans and innocent Iraqis in Iraq.
This toe stomping was treated as a stunning revelation of American brutality. It was added to the torrent of hysteria about photos of nude Iraqis piling on each other and a nude Iraqi being led by a woman soldier with a leash. All of this --according to the media and some in Congress --is supposed to show that America is itself a terrorist nation and that we are really no different from the terrorists.
This is dangerous nonsense.
Here is what is important. This conflict started because a group of Islamic fundamentalist mass murderers killed three thousand totally innocent civilians on September 11, 2001. We did nothing to provoke it except in the terrorists' crazy brains. We had to fight back. That's why we went into Afghanistan and used harsh methods to get answers out of captured Al Qaeda there. To prevent more 9/11's.
Does the media think you just plunk down your card on a silver tray and the terrorists talk? Do they think we get useful information out of hardened terrorists by polite questioning? What do the media think we did in Vietnam? What do they think the Israelis do to find out about terrorism? What do they think the British did in Northern Ireland? Fighting terrorists is a brutal business.
Now, we're in Iraq. Once we're there, we have to protect innocent life from terrorists. That means interrogating prisoners whom we think are terrorists. Sometimes harshly. But we are the good guys. We saved Iraq from a dictator a billion times worse than anything we do there. The people who murder our soldiers and civilians and mutilate them just because the Americans are trying to help rebuild Iraq--those killers are the bad guys. The media plays up endlessly fraternity boy mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison. Yes, it does not look good. And some of it is genuinely bad. The media goes wild about those things. But where is the fuller story? What about the thousands of Iraqis who were tortured to death, who had their eyes cut out, who were surgically mutilated, who were raped, starved, had gasoline poured down their throats and then were set on fire by the Saddam Hussein regime at the same prison? Why don't we ever hear about them? What about the Americans –– military and civilian––who have taken Iraqis mutilated by Saddam and sent them to America for prosthesis for free? Why don't we hear about them on TV?
Why don't we hear more about the families of the four U.S. contractors who were murdered and their bodies mutilated in Falluja by terrorists ? They have been totally forgotten.
Let me ask the media and the Congress a question: might it have been worth stomping on a terrorist's fingers and toes and depriving him of sleep to find out who murdered those four men in Falluja. And making sure they didn't do it again?
Media, Congress, get it straight: The US is the main repository of decency on this earth. And we are a powerful nation. The Al Qaeda can never defeat us if we are united. But we can defeat ourselves if we begin to think we are the enemy and lose our confidence in our cause.
Let's be clear: there is no moral equivalency between us and the terrorists. We're the good guys, and if we lose because we didn't play hard enough, it's the end of everything good in our world.
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:35 am
by crazyskwrls
hmmm i am seriously not against torture, you gotta do what u gotta do some times, yeah ben stein!
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:37 am
by HellsAdvocate
well there not ACTUALLY drowning so lol its all good
we all know the cia and fbi torture ppl, its just politically correct to deny it
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:44 am
by PhoenixRider
not surprised, G.W is totally with torture, right now here is trying to down play waterboarding by not reffering it as torture.
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:13 am
by IguanaRampage
Dom, I agree with half of what that article said. That people have been tortured in Iraq. But as Gandhi said, an eye for an eye and the world will be blind. And do you honestly think that 100% of the people we torture are terrorists? Hell no. And we'll NEVER be sure if we continue water-boarding. If I were in Iraqi being water-boarded, even an innocent bystander, I'd tell them some nonsense like "OK the bomb shipments were sent in from Afghanistan"--something I think they'd want to hear. So does it really help the US to torture? That's why in the field-interrogation booklet torture like this is NOT listed. The interrogation the CIA uses is more than enough to get a contradiction here, a made-up lie there, and force it out of the person. But to break the body and soul of a man that you don't even know is a terrorist? That's some fcked up shit there.
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:17 am
by CrimsonNuker
SaoKill wrote:WHat's WaterBoarding?
LOL
You know surfing? Its like that but you have a much smaller board and you hang on to a rope for your life while you get dragged with a boat
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:20 am
by redneck
The media has had a role with causing a shit load of wars...(Hearst and others).
Now they're doing it in a different way...
Whatever sells i guess
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:22 am
by Reise
Ben Stein is a smart guy, you should listen to him.
Our guys get beheaded and their bodies dragged down the street with flags shoved up their ass, but we use some minor torture tactics to get info from them and suddenly we're the bad guys? No thanks.
Sure torture is "bad" but I'm mainly against Bush's decision because he's going against congress. But hey, if they had more support it would've been passed anyway.
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:32 am
by SaoKill
CrimsonNuker wrote:
SaoKill wrote:WHat's WaterBoarding?
LOL
You know surfing? Its like that but you have a much smaller board and you hang on to a rope for your life while you get dragged with a boat
wtf? Why don't they just drown the dudes until they answer?
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:40 am
by SM-Count
SaoKill wrote:
CrimsonNuker wrote:
SaoKill wrote:WHat's WaterBoarding?
LOL
You know surfing? Its like that but you have a much smaller board and you hang on to a rope for your life while you get dragged with a boat
wtf? Why don't they just drown the dudes until they answer?
The suits need a day off too. They get on their govn't bought black speed boats, tie up the prisoners on govn't bought black boards, and drag them around under the nice cuban sun. It's said to be very a effective information gathering technique.
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:47 am
by IguanaRampage
SaoKill wrote:
CrimsonNuker wrote:
SaoKill wrote:WHat's WaterBoarding?
LOL
You know surfing? Its like that but you have a much smaller board and you hang on to a rope for your life while you get dragged with a boat
wtf? Why don't they just drown the dudes until they answer?
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:50 am
by Amelie
SaoKill wrote:WHat's WaterBoarding?
Code: Select all
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:56 am
by dom
Code: Select all
I suspect Bush doesn't give a shit about waterboarding, but he's veto'ing it so McCain has some examples he can use to draw himself away from Bush and show that if he is elected president it will be a McCain term, not a third Bush term.
I think it would be in Bush's best interest to help assure a republican win rather than secure his reputation in history.
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:10 pm
by MrJoey
Far too late to change his reputation anyways.
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:17 pm
by SaoKill
MrJoey wrote:Far too late to change his reputation anyways.
Yup. GJ to those who voted for him...
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:44 pm
by MrJoey
SaoKill wrote:
MrJoey wrote:Far too late to change his reputation anyways.
Yup. GJ to those who voted for him...
I voted Kerry. :/
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:31 pm
by Nuklear
Reise wrote:I'm pretty sure it's widely understood that GWB is a fuckwit.
Aye.
**** Ben Stein.
Let's face it, if he didn't veto it the terrorists would get us. Oh, and think of the children too.
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:45 pm
by avanti42
if giving some terrorists/suspected terrorists some phycological trauma saves atleast one american life im fine with it
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:57 pm
by Foilin
avanti42 wrote:if giving some terrorists/suspected terrorists some phycological trauma saves atleast one american life im fine with it
I agree 100%.
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:06 am
by Nuklear
avanti42 wrote:if giving some terrorists/suspected terrorists some phycological trauma saves atleast one american life im fine with it
People that say things like that disgust me.
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:38 am
by Sharp324
Nuklear wrote:
avanti42 wrote:if giving some terrorists/suspected terrorists some phycological trauma saves atleast one american life im fine with it
People that say things like that disgust me.
Eh, they wouldnt care to do it to us anyway. But i guess some would love to be beheaded like a cow by some turban
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:59 am
by avanti42
Nuklear wrote:
avanti42 wrote:if giving some terrorists/suspected terrorists some phycological trauma saves atleast one american life im fine with it
People that say things like that disgust me.
why is that? accidents happen, some people who may not be terrorists may end up in a bad situation. am i saying that is a good thing? no it isnt but honestly the amount of actual terrorists that the interrogators will get actual information out of will be much higher than the number of people who are mistakenly imprisoned.
now those "suspected terrorists" who have done nothing wrong and have undergone something nobody would want to, im terribly sorry for what they have had to go through. they can rant and rave about how evil america is for torturing its prisoners and that is completely fine by me and i welcome them to do it. But as long as we get the information we need out of the actual terrorists to stop a potential attack that kills american soldiers and citizens i feel its completely worth it.
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:45 am
by IguanaRampage
avanti42 wrote:
Nuklear wrote:
avanti42 wrote:if giving some terrorists/suspected terroristssome phycological trauma saves atleast one american life im fine with it
People that say things like that disgust me.
why is that? accidents happen, some people who may not be terrorists may end up in a bad situation. am i saying that is a good thing? no it isnt but honestly the amount of actual terrorists that the interrogators will get actual information out of will be much higher than the number of people who are mistakenly imprisoned.
now those "suspected terrorists" who have done nothing wrong and have undergone something nobody would want to, im terribly sorry for what they have had to go through. they can rant and rave about how evil america is for torturing its prisoners and that is completely fine by me and i welcome them to do it. But as long as we get the information we need out of the actual terrorists to stop a potential attack that kills american soldiers and citizens i feel its completely worth it.
1. It is because you implied that one American life is far more important than numerous lives (too many to count) of "suspected terrorists".
2. How so?
Sen. Jay Rockefeller, chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said he had heard nothing to suggest that the CIA, through enhanced interrogation methods, had obtained information to thwart a terrorist attack. "On the other hand, I do know that coercive interrogations can lead detainees to provide false information in order to make the interrogation stop," said Rockefeller, D-W.Va.
Some good words there. How do you know that we've gotten "actual information" about terrorist threats? A "suspected terrorist" would make something up.
Psychological Trauma (which is what I assume you were attempting to spell)--- don't even get me started. Psychological? THEY'RE DROWNING SLOWLY. Drowning is supposed to be one of the most painful deaths imaginable. They are made to suffer this as a torture. Psychological? How about extreme physical pain, psychological torture as in not knowing when it will stop, and hopelessness because you believe you will die soon, which actually happens more than people think.
Yes, waterboarding is totally okay. Because torturing random civilians definitely improves our image and makes people love us too much to bomb us. Yay! /sarcasm.
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:50 am
by dom
IguanaRampage wrote:Yes, waterboarding is totally okay. Because torturing random civilians definitely improves our image and makes people love us too much to bomb us. Yay! /sarcasm.
It's too late to worry about image.
Re: Bush to Veto Bill That Would Ban Water-boarding
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:56 am
by XemnasXD
If your dumb enough to think water boarding, toe-stomping, and mean pictures are the worse forms of torture the US is using against prisoners then you'd probably vote bush in for a 3rd term if it were possible. Don't trade one extreme media bias for another extreme media bias....
Is torture necessary, sometimes. Would i torture someone to get information out of them, yes. What i wouldn't do is announce to the world how bad torture is and then lie about doing it. I don't mind the torture im annoyed by the hypocrisy.
