Epictetus and botters

[chickenfeather]

Well I'm reading Epictetus' Handbook on Ethics in class and I think his ideas about justice(not botting) and injustice(botting) applies pretty well to sro botters. From what I've read I can apply it as there being 4 states of "happiness" in sro from the best to the worst:

BEST
1) Botting and no one accuses you of botting
2) Not botting and no one accuses you of botting
3) Botting and being accused of botting
4) Not botting and being accused of botting
WORST

^this is assuming that botting is a "good" because of its result(being high level).

Apparently, the best thing if you only think about yourself is to bot yourself to a high level and have everyone else think you are legit. You get what you want, which is to be high level without working for it, and you get the respect of everyone else around you even if it is not deserved. Epictetus said that in real life this state is unachievable because there is no way to keep on doing injustice without getting caught, this is why societies make rules to reach the next closest thing to happiness, which is option 2.

Epictetus also puts forth an example about the Ring of Gyges, a ring that turns the user invisible and allows the user to do anything without impunity. He states that anyone who possesses such a ring can and will do whatever they want(kinda like absolute power corrupts absolutely). The Ring of Gyges example can relate to sro in that it is a world where you can do anything without impunity(due to the impotence of Joymax) and the botters are taking advantage of this to reach the highest state of "happiness". From what I see in the Exposed Botters subforum, quite a large number of people have achieved option 1, that's why there is such an uproar against it.

Just a random thought cuz I'm bored.

[non ego man]

You get what you want, which is to be high level without working for it...

Is that what I want?

What I want is to login to the game easily after everyone in the house has gone to bed. Grind for 1-2 hours while listening to music. Drink a beer or G&T. Talk with friends in chat and strike up conversations with people I'm grinding next to or who respond to my globals. When I level, I want it to be meaningful but I won't obsess over it. When I PvP or Job, I want to play against others who built their characters from scratch, warts and all.

Being high level isn't good. Having fun is good. Being proud of your accomplishments is good. Being high level is not the goal, its a secondary result of a goal: having a good time playing this game.

I often think about the ring of Gyges as it relates to botters. In economics terms, there are many incentives and few disincentives to bot. That's the premise of the ring of Gyges. This game can jeopardize one's belief in the goodness of mankind, but I chalk it up to immaturity. Please don't dissuade me of that.

[TwelveEleven]

You get what you want, which is to be high level without working for it...

Is that what I want?

YES YES YES

[XuChu]

This is what I want

[non ego man]

LMAO. Please stop undermining my faith in humanity!!!

[XuChu]

"Time to büst these bastards for what they've done to us in the past, they've humiliated us now we haunt them back and we're injustice? Let the oppressor's taste the wrath of the oppressed!The SRFREICH IS JUSTICE!"

[chickenfeather]

You get what you want, which is to be high level without working for it...

Is that what I want?

What I want is to login to the game easily after everyone in the house has gone to bed. Grind for 1-2 hours while listening to music. Drink a beer or G&T. Talk with friends in chat and strike up conversations with people I'm grinding next to or who respond to my globals. When I level, I want it to be meaningful but I won't obsess over it. When I PvP or Job, I want to play against others who built their characters from scratch, warts and all.

Being high level isn't good. Having fun is good. Being proud of your accomplishments is good. Being high level is not the goal, its a secondary result of a goal: having a good time playing this game.

I often think about the ring of Gyges as it relates to botters. In economics terms, there are many incentives and few disincentives to bot. That's the premise of the ring of Gyges. This game can jeopardize one's belief in the goodness of mankind, but I chalk it up to immaturity. Please don't dissuade me of that.

oi oi oi. I wasn't trying to dissuade you from your gaming style, just saying that this is what I think a botter's mentality is.

[Reise]

Why are people still trying to put a good face on botters?

Cheaters are cheaters.

[non ego man]

oi oi oi. I wasn't trying to dissuade you from your gaming style, just saying that this is what I think a botter's mentality is.

LOL...just giving you a hard time, anyway. Its an interesting way to view the issue and like I said, botting is proof of the premise of the ring of Gyges. Moral pressure is a strong disincentive. When people believed there was no longer any moral prohibition to botting (witness the myriad rationalizations for why botters are cooler and smarter than legits), of course they started botting. They have no internal moral mechanism for virtuous behavior. They will take advantage of any opportunity, regardless of ethics, if there are no negative consequences. That's kind of sad. Many studies have been done on cheating and reading the profiles of cheaters and the conditions under which people cheat is fascinating. SRO is no exception.

[iGod]

I think you're forgetting the people who aren't insecure about themselves, the legits or botters who don't care what other people think

[non ego man]

...botters who don't care what other people think

There's no such thing. A botter doesn't feel any sense of pride or accomplishment from turning on his bot and getting to 80 and getting 3 sun drops. Well, if he does he's pathetic. He does it because of how others will perceive him. They'll think he's cool because he owns in PvP. Botters are totally dependent on how they appear to others for their own self-worth. They enjoy the game because others think they're cool, not because they've actually accomplished anything.

[iGod]

...botters who don't care what other people think

There's no such thing. A botter doesn't feel any sense of pride or accomplishment from turning on his bot and getting to 80 and getting 3 sun drops. Well, if he does he's pathetic. He does it because of how others will perceive him. They'll think he's cool because he owns in PvP. Botters are totally dependent on how they appear to others for their own self-worth. They enjoy the game because others think they're cool, not because they've actually accomplished anything.

If you say so Mr. Freud. I disagree tho, I believe I met a lot more 'botters' than you judging from your view on them.

[-Evan]

So non ego man... Do you bot?... if not.. shut the **** up.

[chickenfeather]

If you say so Mr. Freud. I disagree tho, I believe I met a lot more 'botters' than you judging from your view on them.

Ok, let's assume you are right and that the bots don't care about what others think of them. Then what is the incentive for them to bot?

So non ego man... Do you bot?... if not.. shut the **** up.

Wow. Totally random.

[non ego man]

So non ego man... Do you bot?... if not.. shut the **** up.

LMAO. Looks like I struck a nerve with one of those closet botters everyone's talking about.

[chickenfeather]

congrats on your 666th post non ego man

[non ego man]

congrats on your 666th post non ego man

And I made it a good one, hehe.

[-Evan]

So non ego man... Do you bot?... if not.. shut the **** up.

LMAO. Looks like I struck a nerve with one of those closet botters everyone's talking about.

I don't even play SRO...

[non ego man]

I don't even play SRO...

Yeah, I know. LMAO

[TOloseGT]

Ok, let's assume you are right and that the bots don't care about what others think of them. Then what is the incentive for them to bot?

higher lvl in half the time.

[non ego man]

higher lvl in half the time.

But for what? Is grinding on Yetis a lot different than grinding on tigers? Botters don't want to be higher level, they want to beat other players. In PvP, in Jobs, in GW, in FW. Without the other players to beat, its pointless. The fact that they cheat to beat other players isn't even a consideration.

[TOloseGT]

hey, the number 80 is very tempting

[iGod]

higher lvl in half the time.

But for what? Is grinding on Yetis a lot different than grinding on tigers? Botters don't want to be higher level, they want to beat other players. In PvP, in Jobs, in GW, in FW. Without the other players to beat, its pointless. The fact that they cheat to beat other players isn't even a consideration.

They wanna do the same thing the 'legit' players do, but do it while they sleep as well as when they're afk I guess, thus doing it faster. Whats your reason to play sro? I'm guessing a botter would have the same reason.

[non ego man]

Whats your reason to play sro? I'm guessing a botter would have the same reason.

"What I want is to login to the game easily after everyone in the house has gone to bed. Grind for 1-2 hours while listening to music. Drink a beer or G&T. Talk with friends in chat and strike up conversations with people I'm grinding next to or who respond to my globals. When I level, I want it to be meaningful but I won't obsess over it. When I PvP or Job, I want to play against others who built their characters from scratch, warts and all."

[XemnasXD]

FFS keep this shit in GD

[non ego man]

FFS keep this shit in GD

Can you PM a mod and ask him to move it?

[Vindicator]

FFS keep this shit in GD

Seriously, I never do this + shit but this needs a:



OTL has nothing to do with sro, keep this shit out.