development simulator and then go bankrupt because of piracy?
How does piracy feel? The cracked version is nearly identical to the real thing except for one detail… Initially we thought about telling them their copy is an illegal copy, but instead we didn’t want to pass up the unique opportunity of holding a mirror in front of them and showing them what piracy can do to game developers. So, as players spend a few hours playing and growing their own game dev company, they will start to see the following message, styled like any other in-game message: Quote: Boss, it seems that while many players play our new game, they steal it by downloading a cracked version rather than buying it legally. If players don’t buy the games they like, we will sooner or later go bankrupt.
It's kind of childish really. If you want to make sales, make a game that's sales-worthy. Their Game Dev tycoon game unfortunately is not the type of game that does well considering their circumstances. It's a simulator of a not-particularly-interesting-or-appealing-to-the-masses subject created by a newbie no-name studio. Additionally sim-games are rarely played longer than a week. Truth be told everything here pretty much sets it so people are unlikely to buy it.
If you want to earn as a newbie game dev you need to 1.Create story-driven franchise game. 2. learn how to swing piracy into your favor.
1. Tycoon games (with the exception of rollercoaster, railroad and maybe zoo) don't last. They are just the type of games you get so you can waste time for a few days, but it's just not something you ever buy with intention of experiencing depth. Where-as Story-driven games attract attention, especially if it has a unique feel to it. It's the type of game where there's a reason to play through it multiple times, and the type of game you'd reinstall a couple of times for the sake of nostalgia. If your story is good enough it'll get recommended from friend to friend and eventually reach a reviewer. You'll gather a crowd, get all kinds of feedback and you'll be able to make an even better part 2.
2. As mentioned in the article, DRM is pointless, it delays the inevitable by a matter of hours. You might as well make the best of it for your paying customers. To begin with, just removing the DRM will get you a couple of extra sales from the people that hate DRM with a passion. Additionally Piracy can be utilised as an amazing commercial tool. Games will get pirated, it's inevitable. But if your game is good enough you can be damn sure you've attained a few new buyers for the next instalment. Additionally a lot of pirates are little kids that just can't afford the game and can't get their parents to buy it. You can't blame them, but you can win over their favor for the years to come. Essentially almost every pirate is a potential buyer in the future, if you can win their respect. Just recently there was an article of a company that was helping out folks pirate their game and get it to work. What did they get in return? A message on PB that said they should buy their game and a crapton of sales.
tl;dr pirates are potential buyers, win their respect and they'll happily pay you.
These guys are trying to earn money from a game that simply isn't suited for breaking into the market. They didn't think it through well enough and now they're acting whiny over the fact that it didn't go as they expected.
Re: What happens when pirates play a game..
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:33 pm
by *BlackFox
poehalcho wrote:nope.
Why not?
Re: What happens when pirates play a game..
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:50 pm
by poehalcho
updated previous post.
Re: What happens when pirates play a game..
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:35 pm
by omier
Exactly what Poe said plus this:
The main reason that I pirate games, is that I don't have much to spend on games and my laptop is pretty rubbish when it comes to new games. And it's not even 2 years old yet. Can't get a new laptop either because I don't have that much money. Provided I had the money, I would gladly buy games if I knew they're going to run on my computer. And I do miss the features that legal copies have, such as MP for example. I only have 10 games that have been paid for and I've only bought one of them myself.
Re: What happens when pirates play a game..
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:44 pm
by poehalcho
Another option btw is to start with a multi-player focussed game as those offer endless 'endgame'. As long as there are other players you can always keep on playing and it'll be different experience everytime. That's why sportsgames sell
Re: What happens when pirates play a game..
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:05 pm
by MrTwilliger
There are two justifications for pirating a game: the game is not available for sale any more or the game has never been available to buy in your country. Just because your poor doesn't mean you have to right to download a game for free. "Oh, I'm too poor to eat at this fancy restaurant, so I'm just going to eat there and walk away without paying my bill". It's bullshit and you all know it. Also, @poehalcho, your argument about making a "sales worthy" game is bullshit. A developer shouldn't have to make a game amazing just to avoid piracy. If you don't like a product on a store shelf does that give you the right to just go and steal it? No. And where's your data describing the relationship between "better" game and increased profits? To make a "better game" has additional costs and I don't see any hard data stating that it will convince consumers to purchase it. If anything, more people will simply pirate it because it's a more desirable game!
I could rant on for hours but I'll end it here. It's not the developers fault yet they are the ones who get screwed over by it. Stop being a dick and buy your games. DRM though... that's a different scenario all together. How can any developer expect someone to pay for a game that's locked in by DRM, when they could get a version for free that's got no restrictions at all? DRM really isn't handled well by industry. Also, "always online" DFRM is absolute bullshit.
Re: What happens when pirates play a game..
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:21 pm
by Toshiharu
What I love the most is how much advertisement he's getting from pulling this stunt. After 24 hours all I hear is "Why am I not rich yet? Why are people playing my game they never heard of without buying it?" and so on. I'm not encouraging piracy, but certainly only a fraction of what was sold would have even happened. Piracy aren't lost sales. They were never sales in the first place, well that's not entirely true. Yeah there are people will that pirate since it's so easy and never spend a dime. Not all pirates are like that though. Some turn around and buy it if they enjoy it. Ironically him complaining about pirates is going to going to have more piracy on his game and sales.
Piracy will happen, and accept it. You can't change anything about it. Shove in DRM then people will pirate it since it's more convenient to the user to have a crack rather than to play with a mess of DRM.
Re: What happens when pirates play a game..
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:26 pm
by omier
poehalcho wrote:Another option btw is to start with a multi-player focussed game as those offer endless 'endgame'. As long as there are other players you can always keep on playing and it'll be different experience everytime. That's why sportsgames sell
Yeah, but the problem with sports games is that they actually aren't that endless. For example you don't want to play an older version of FIFA when the new one is already out. The new one usually offers better gameplay, graphics and updated database of players and clubs. My brother once bought FIFA 06, but there is no reason to play it now.
MrTwilliger wrote:There are two justifications for pirating a game: the game is not available for sale any more or the game has never been available to buy in your country. Just because your poor doesn't mean you have to right to download a game for free. "Oh, I'm too poor to eat at this fancy restaurant, so I'm just going to eat there and walk away without paying my bill". It's bullshit and you all know it. Also, @poehalcho, your argument about making a "sales worthy" game is bullshit. A developer shouldn't have to make a game amazing just to avoid piracy. If you don't like a product on a store shelf does that give you the right to just go and steal it? No. And where's your data describing the relationship between "better" game and increased profits? To make a "better game" has additional costs and I don't see any hard data stating that it will convince consumers to purchase it. If anything, more people will simply pirate it because it's a more desirable game!
I could rant on for hours but I'll end it here. It's not the developers fault yet they are the ones who get screwed over by it. Stop being a dick and buy your games. DRM though... that's a different scenario all together. How can any developer expect someone to pay for a game that's locked in by DRM, when they could get a version for free that's got no restrictions at all? DRM really isn't handled well by industry. Also, "always online" DFRM is absolute bullshit.
There is still a difference between stealing and copying. And I didn't want to justify my behaviour. I am just not going to miss out on games while people around me are pirating too.
Re: What happens when pirates play a game..
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:32 pm
by BuDo
poehalcho wrote:
*BlackFox wrote:^ And that's a good thing! Right?
nope.
It's kind of childish really. If you want to make sales, make a game that's sales-worthy. Their Game Dev tycoon game unfortunately is not the type of game that does well considering their circumstances. It's a simulator of a not-particularly-interesting-or-appealing-to-the-masses subject created by a newbie no-name studio. Additionally sim-games are rarely played longer than a week. Truth be told everything here pretty much sets it so people are unlikely to buy it.
If you want to earn as a newbie game dev you need to 1.Create story-driven franchise game. 2. learn how to swing piracy into your favor.
1. Tycoon games (with the exception of rollercoaster, railroad and maybe zoo) don't last. They are just the type of games you get so you can waste time for a few days, but it's just not something you ever buy with intention of experiencing depth. Where-as Story-driven games attract attention, especially if it has a unique feel to it. It's the type of game where there's a reason to play through it multiple times, and the type of game you'd reinstall a couple of times for the sake of nostalgia. If your story is good enough it'll get recommended from friend to friend and eventually reach a reviewer. You'll gather a crowd, get all kinds of feedback and you'll be able to make an even better part 2.
2. As mentioned in the article, DRM is pointless, it delays the inevitable by a matter of hours. You might as well make the best of it for your paying customers. To begin with, just removing the DRM will get you a couple of extra sales from the people that hate DRM with a passion. Additionally Piracy can be utilised as an amazing commercial tool. Games will get pirated, it's inevitable. But if your game is good enough you can be damn sure you've attained a few new buyers for the next instalment. Additionally a lot of pirates are little kids that just can't afford the game and can't get their parents to buy it. You can't blame them, but you can win over their favor for the years to come. Essentially almost every pirate is a potential buyer in the future, if you can win their respect. Just recently there was an article of a company that was helping out folks pirate their game and get it to work. What did they get in return? A message on PB that said they should buy their game and a crapton of sales.
tl;dr pirates are potential buyers, win their respect and they'll happily pay you.
These guys are trying to earn money from a game that simply isn't suited for breaking into the market. They didn't think it through well enough and now they're acting whiny over the fact that it didn't go as they expected.
If you and most pirates know beforehand that most game dev companies put out sub-par games, why at all even bother playing them???... This idea of a game being good enough to play but not good enough to buy is complete hypocrisy..... like Mr Twigz said you wouldn't walk into a store and grab shit off the shelf under the same idea...
Re: What happens when pirates play a game..
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:49 pm
by poehalcho
I'm not trying to justify piracy, nor am I trying to make it look bad. Personally I find it arguable as it does differ from ordinary theft. What I'm trying to say is that it's futile to try and stop it in the way that they are attempting. It's pretty much futile to try and stop it unless they nazi the entire internet, which nobody wants. Instead they should focus on leaving a good impression and try to get whoever they can to support them, be it right now or in the future.
Besides, my comment wasn't about making a sales-worthy game, it was about making a sales-suitable game. They made a game that in their situation is simply not able to sell, because of distrust and low quality.
Lets compare it to SimCity. SimCity generally sold quite well even though it's of a similar genre. Why? conditions are different. Maxis is pretty much the pioneer of the genre, People trust them because they've made the game of their youth that at it's time could've been considered very complex. Maxis has people's trust as the biggest and best developer of city-builders. Yet lets also consider how many sales they lost because they are getting published by America's worst company 2-time champion... Nobody trusts EA anymore.
Karma's a bitch.
Re: What happens when pirates play a game..
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:04 pm
by poehalcho
BuDo wrote:If you and most pirates know beforehand that most game dev companies put out sub-par games, why at all even bother playing them???... This idea of a game being good enough to play but not good enough to buy is complete hypocrisy..... like Mr Twigz said you wouldn't walk into a store and grab shit off the shelf under the same idea...
well... I don't. In fact my current games list is pretty much years behind on the current release schedule, because most of the good games are pretty old. So much that a lot of the games don't even get released anymore. Others I'm just not sure how much I'd really enjoy.
For instance Darksiders. I didn't really know what to expect. It turned out to be one of the best games I've played in years and I told myself I'd definitely buy the 2nd part. Granted I haven't yet, but that's because: 1. I haven't gotten to it, 2. The game got rather negative reviews. I haven't downloaded the game either though. The main question here is, do I even want to play it if it bombed that hard.
On the other hand, I will absolutely buy GTAV, as that game just looks incredibly good. Same with Watch_Dogs. I can tell right from the start that these are games I will not feel sorry paying for.
As for the latter part, Piracy isn't the same as theft. There are no losses in piracy. Even if you wouldn't normally buy the product yourself, would you usually say no to a free sample so to speak?
Re: What happens when pirates play a game..
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:14 pm
by ltsune
Yes, what they did was quite ingenious (to get this topic back on track). I read about it just yesterday, and I really loved telling the story to my friends this evening.
Well played, Game Developer, well played!
Re: What happens when pirates play a game..
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:29 pm
by *BlackFox
poehalcho wrote:Piracy isn't the same as theft.
Piracy is a form of theft with a "Robin Hood" twist?.. Well... specifically, it refers to the "unauthorized copying or use of intellectual property"
Re: What happens when pirates play a game..
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 3:35 am
by BuDo
poehalcho wrote:
BuDo wrote:If you and most pirates know beforehand that most game dev companies put out sub-par games, why at all even bother playing them???... This idea of a game being good enough to play but not good enough to buy is complete hypocrisy..... like Mr Twigz said you wouldn't walk into a store and grab shit off the shelf under the same idea...
well... I don't. In fact my current games list is pretty much years behind on the current release schedule, because most of the good games are pretty old. So much that a lot of the games don't even get released anymore. Others I'm just not sure how much I'd really enjoy.
For instance Darksiders. I didn't really know what to expect. It turned out to be one of the best games I've played in years and I told myself I'd definitely buy the 2nd part. Granted I haven't yet, but that's because: 1. I haven't gotten to it, 2. The game got rather negative reviews. I haven't downloaded the game either though. The main question here is, do I even want to play it if it bombed that hard.
On the other hand, I will absolutely buy GTAV, as that game just looks incredibly good. Same with Watch_Dogs. I can tell right from the start that these are games I will not feel sorry paying for.
As for the latter part, Piracy isn't the same as theft. There are no losses in piracy. Even if you wouldn't normally buy the product yourself, would you usually say no to a free sample so to speak?
It's intellectual property theft that someone is distributing for free and you grabbing yourself a copy doesn't make you less of a culprit despite how far removed you are from actually being the guy who's distributing pirated copies of the game....
You can sugar coat it with terms like "free sample" but if that was true it wouldn't be so bad...the fact is most pirates "sample" the game for free and if they love it they still see no need to pay for it afterwords...
Re: What happens when pirates play a game..
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 4:13 am
by heroo
the only game I pay for is COD. and if a game can't offer a decent multiplayer, it can kiss my ass.
Re: What happens when pirates play a game..
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 4:30 am
by Fiction
I just wanna say this, to anyone that is making the comparison that pirating is the same as stealing something off a store shelf: I've never known any store to sell something it could create out of thin air, and when a customer takes one, there's still an infinite supply left. The only thing a pirate has stolen is so-called "potential sells".
I find it very curious that we as ppl can demonize kids for downloading their favorite music/movie/game, when they wouldn't have been able to buy it anyways. I find there's an easy line to be drawn.. Stealing an album from a store means the store has lost a physical item, and it must now restock. Downloading an album illegally means that you can listen to all those songs without going to the store and stealing that album. Success! You've actually done that store a favor. lol (guess not everyone grew up in "tha hood")
Also wanna say, it is very dumb to compare the morals of stealing a physical object, and an infinite supply of potential profit. ><'
BuDo wrote:the fact is most pirates "sample" the game for free and if they love it they still see no need to pay for it afterwords...[/color]
Could you give a source to back this statement up? I've bought several games on steam that I had already pirated. I wouldn't have bought them at all if I had not pirated them first. This is the only way I will buy a PC game(less I know the franchise). I have yet to buy the heap of shit that is SimCity.
Also wanna add... Kinda ironic that these ppl taking the "moral high road" on this subject, are usually the same ones bitching like crazy about a CEO being greedy for earning millions of dollars a year.
More often than not, when a developer goes under it's usually poor management, lack of vision, or just a terrible product. Piracy plays a lot less of a part in a developer's demise than what they'd like you to believe.
And that concludes my tirade on this subject.
Re: What happens when pirates play a game..
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 4:48 am
by heroo
As long as COD generates over 1 billion dollars each year, no one can tell me piracy is seriously damaging the entertainment industry.
Re: What happens when pirates play a game..
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:20 am
by BuDo
Fiction wrote:I just wanna say this, to anyone that is making the comparison that pirating is the same as stealing something off a store shelf: I've never known any store to sell something it could create out of thin air, and when a customer takes one, there's still an infinite supply left. The only thing a pirate has stolen is so-called "potential sells".
I find it very curious that we as ppl can demonize kids for downloading their favorite music/movie/game, when they wouldn't have been able to buy it anyways. I find there's an easy line to be drawn.. Stealing an album from a store means the store has lost a physical item, and it must now restock. Downloading an album illegally means that you can listen to all those songs without going to the store and stealing that album. Success! You've actually done that store a favor. lol (guess not everyone grew up in "tha hood")
Also wanna say, it is very dumb to compare the morals of stealing a physical object, and an infinite supply of potential profit. ><'
BuDo wrote:the fact is most pirates "sample" the game for free and if they love it they still see no need to pay for it afterwords...[/color]
Could you give a source to back this statement up? I've bought several games on steam that I had already pirated. I wouldn't have bought them at all if I had not pirated them first. This is the only way I will buy a PC game(less I know the franchise). I have yet to buy the heap of shit that is SimCity.
Also wanna add... Kinda ironic that these ppl taking the "moral high road" on this subject, are usually the same ones bitching like crazy about a CEO being greedy for earning millions of dollars a year.
And that concludes my tirade on this subject.
Eh... Just wanna add this... More often than not, when a developer goes under it's usually poor management, lack of vision, or just a terrible product. Piracy plays a lot less of a part in a developer's demise than what they'd like you to believe.
lol? Its virtual and limitless thus it isn't theft? lol? really?... What about the person's time and effort that went into creating it?....You're outlook here is highly flawed...Credit card numbers are forged out of "thin air" figuratively speaking so I guess it's OK to snatch a few of them If I was to follow your reasoning....
I know scores of people that pirate games (friends, friends of friends, casual acquaintances and a whole lot more from the technical college I used to attend) who end up loving it and still would not purchase it afterwards but instead use the "corporations are rich" excuse...or simply no excuse at all...
I agree with pirating on some levels....Like can't finding the game anymore or screwing over a corporation that is known to screw over its consumer base by not doing what is right. Like joymax for example... I supported them for years (6.5yrs worth of silk purchases) with the hopes they'd fix the main issue with sro....So I have no problem playing on a private server and supporting someone else (a pirate) who'd do a better job... but other than that pirating isn't cool for people who are tryin to make a living from their creation..
Re: What happens when pirates play a game..
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:24 am
by BuDo
heroo wrote:As long as COD generates over 1 billion dollars each year, no one can tell me piracy is seriously damaging the entertainment industry.
The same thought process could be used for robbing walmart.... But yet you probably wouldn't do it..hmmm
Re: What happens when pirates play a game..
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:56 am
by Avalanche
Meh.. I agree with both sides really. If you can't afford the game you can't really justify pirating it because you feel entitled to play it. However, people do use pirating as a way to test games. I myself do it a lot after being completely burned by pre-ordering sh!tty ass games.
Example, I pre-ordered Dragon Age II. They didn't deserve an effing dime for that POS game. When Dragon Age III comes out you'll be sure I will pirate the hell out of that game and if it is good I'll buy it.
I did the same thing for Bioshock Infinite recently, I first pirated it and saw how good it was and then bought the game because I loved the game and knew I'd replay it.
Re: What happens when pirates play a game..
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 8:38 am
by Love
that's retarded ...
Re: What happens when pirates play a game..
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 12:05 pm
by Fiction
Budo... In no way is pirating data the same as stealing credit card numbers... One is infinite, the other is connected to someone's account that is actually losing money... C'mon, you're smarter than that.. Maybe
Re: What happens when pirates play a game..
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 12:14 pm
by Avalanche
Fiction wrote:Budo... In no way is pirating data the same as stealing credit card numbers... One is infinite, the other is connected to someone's account that is actually losing money... C'mon, you're smarter than that.. Maybe
I believe he just used the wrong analogy.. Think of it this way: A customer heads to Gamestop to buy the newest title but right outside the store is someone giving away the game for free. Of course most people would take the free game. Why spend $60 when its free? Yeah Gamestop did not have a theft but they lost a sale, which is just as bad. Don't be too stuck on the whole finite/infinite argument because that's not what pirating is about.. Pirating leads to a loss of sales. Most people don't use pirating as demo'ing games, they just download it, play it, uninstall it.
Re: What happens when pirates play a game..
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 12:43 pm
by Fiction
Avalanche wrote:
Fiction wrote:Budo... In no way is pirating data the same as stealing credit card numbers... One is infinite, the other is connected to someone's account that is actually losing money... C'mon, you're smarter than that.. Maybe
I believe he just used the wrong analogy.. Think of it this way: A customer heads to Gamestop to buy the newest title but right outside the store is someone giving away the game for free. Of course most people would take the free game. Why spend $60 when its free? Yeah Gamestop did not have a theft but they lost a sale, which is just as bad. Don't be too stuck on the whole finite/infinite argument because that's not what pirating is about.. Pirating leads to a loss of sales. Most people don't use pirating as demo'ing games, they just download it, play it, uninstall it.
At least you understand it. It's potential profit. I see it kinda like gay sex... If everyone was doing it exclusively, it would be bad, but there's still billions of us reproducing, so it works. The same is true for video games. Millions are still buying them. Companies like Microsoft get mad at pirating because they want every last dollar, but most ppl aren't made of money, and would rather try a game out before blowing money on a shitty game. There are plenty of reasons to buy the legit copy over the pirated version anyways. (sometimes pirated version is better)
Re: What happens when pirates play a game..
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 1:05 pm
by Fury
Man please, not one of you can say you've never pirated a movie or game so get off your high horses.
Re: What happens when pirates play a game..
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 3:01 pm
by *BlackFox
^ I haven't!
Re: What happens when pirates play a game..
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 3:12 pm
by Aventus
If you don't want to buy a shitty game, stop preordering them. Anyone who complains about buying a shitty game has no one to blame but themselves. So don't use that as an excuse.
And I didn't want to justify my behaviour. I am just not going to miss out on games while people around me are pirating too.