from my understand of private health care, as long as you got cash to back yourself up, your good. if you dont you are fcked, God's know how many americans are like that living without health coverage.
my question for those who are for private health care is, if privatization is that good. why not private other sectors? like fire departments, military, prisons, police, etc.
i guess americans are starting to privatize the military sectors with security contractors...
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:39 am
by /Pi
To be honest, I feel ashamed not looking into this issue. And I'm even pursuing a health care career.
/fail
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:40 am
by /Pi
double post
/fail again
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:44 am
by XemnasXD
where is the "I have no healthcare and i want some" option....
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:20 am
by weblegend
universal health care? cost=no free=lie
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:37 am
by cpinney
ive been wanting to make a thread such as this for a while, but more closely related to whats going on in the usa. but this isnt quite it :\
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:13 am
by SidiousX
I hav no idea wot the privatized or universal stuff is..
But here in Holland everyone has a health insurance..
I pay 100€ each month for health insurance, and that covers up almost everything
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:16 am
by woutR
The Dutch health care system is different, it's sort of privatized in a way that you select your own insurance company, but at the same time it's mandatory to get it. I actually don't know too much about it, I'm not 18 yet so my parents take care of it now.
I think health care should be mandatory in most countries, especially America. I'm not sure how we fund those that can't pay the insurance, but I'm guessing we have some sort of welfare for it. Of course it's not nice that there will be people leeching from it, but it's more important that everyone can receive medical care.
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:18 am
by takolin
What's not to like about universal healthcare?
Sure you're "forced" to pay each month, but you won't be the guy that ends up in a carton box because you didn't have an insurance.
I love the system in Belgium. It's not free, it's for everyone though. Hell nothing from the government is free. You pay taxes for a reason.
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:06 pm
by dom
I love how the evangelicals NEED to save baby fetuses but will let their countrymen die because they don't make enough money.
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:30 pm
by SM-Count
'Universal Health Care'... what does that even mean? 'Government Run Health Care' another word thrown around a lot, they don't mean anything specific, just a concept. Is this Obama's plan? What Germany has? What France has?
It's stupid to discuss something so vague because bs arguments are going to fly up everywhere. In this 'Universal Health Care' of yours, do welfare recipients get health care? Same level as employed people? Do permanent residents get health care or just citizens? Do International Students get health care? Do unemployed people get health care?
One of the large arguments against such a system (assuming all of the above was answered with a yes) is that it's very hard on the middle class. Companies no longer offer health care does not necessarily translate into higher wages, however, because of all the unemployed and those receiving welfare or below the poverty lines who pay no taxes but receive the same health care as employed people then the latter basically carries them.
If unemployed people don't receive health care, then, one, it's not universal health care, and two, up/mid class still pays for lower class plus they'd have to spend more money on extra stuff that the lower class would do without instead of just buying a private plan that covers more for less (i.e. not buying basic health care for other people) Even coverage's not going to be fantastic ($1+ tril for a couple hundred million for years to come)
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:27 pm
by pr0klobster
SM-Count wrote:'Universal Health Care'... what does that even mean? 'Government Run Health Care' another word thrown around a lot, they don't mean anything specific, just a concept. Is this Obama's plan? What Germany has? What France has?
It's stupid to discuss something so vague because bs arguments are going to fly up everywhere. In this 'Universal Health Care' of yours, do welfare recipients get health care? Same level as employed people? Do permanent residents get health care or just citizens? Do International Students get health care? Do unemployed people get health care?
One of the large arguments against such a system (assuming all of the above was answered with a yes) is that it's very hard on the middle class. Companies no longer offer health care does not necessarily translate into higher wages, however, because of all the unemployed and those receiving welfare or below the poverty lines who pay no taxes but receive the same health care as employed people then the latter basically carries them.
If unemployed people don't receive health care, then, one, it's not universal health care, and two, up/mid class still pays for lower class plus they'd have to spend more money on extra stuff that the lower class would do without instead of just buying a private plan that covers more for less (i.e. not buying basic health care for other people) Even coverage's not going to be fantastic ($1+ tril for a couple hundred million for years to come)
Agreed. I am against such nebulous, "utopian" things like this. It's just unrealistic.
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:55 pm
by _Scarlett_
Health Care in the U.S could be A LOT better. If you have a pre-existing condition and a job that doesn't provide health insurance, good luck trying to find an insurance company who's coverage is actually useful. That's also assuming you can find a company that would insure you whatsoever.
I have a pre-existing condition (Type I, Diabetes) with insurance, but the coverage isn't the best. The one major problem is that it doesn't cover testing supplies, which if you're a diabetic is very important. Test strips seem like they're a $1 each, come in a container of 25 ea, in a box holding 4 containers. Most money goes toward test strips; then next to that you have insulin, insets, and other insulin pump supplies.
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:15 pm
by pr0klobster
_Scarlett_ wrote:Health Care in the U.S could be A LOT better. If you have a pre-existing condition and a job that doesn't provide health insurance, good luck trying to find an insurance company who's coverage is actually useful. That's also assuming you can find a company that would insure you whatsoever.
I have a pre-existing condition (Type I, Diabetes) with insurance, but the coverage isn't the best. The one major problem is that it doesn't cover testing supplies, which if you're a diabetic is very important. Test strips seem like they're a $1 each, come in a container of 25 ea, in a box holding 4 containers. Most money goes toward test strips; then next to that you have insulin, insets, and other insulin pump supplies.
My wife has Type II diabetes and we had a hard fight getting anything paid for. We ended up having to put money in a fund for her test strips and insulin (both types, humalog and regular). My job lets me put money pre-tax just for this occasion and it has been useful, although honestly it's not the health care in the US that's horrible but the population getting unhealthier every year, so insurers are loath to cover a lot of things.
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:46 pm
by takolin
_Scarlett_ wrote:Health Care in the U.S could be A LOT better. If you have a pre-existing condition and a job that doesn't provide health insurance, good luck trying to find an insurance company who's coverage is actually useful. That's also assuming you can find a company that would insure you whatsoever.
I have a pre-existing condition (Type I, Diabetes) with insurance, but the coverage isn't the best. The one major problem is that it doesn't cover testing supplies, which if you're a diabetic is very important. Test strips seem like they're a $1 each, come in a container of 25 ea, in a box holding 4 containers. Most money goes toward test strips; then next to that you have insulin, insets, and other insulin pump supplies.
Ouch,
Immigrate to Belgium. Insulin is free from charge for all those have an insurance aka everyone.
Currently I'm doing my internship at a pharmacy and if I see what medicines cost if there was no health care, I'd cry if I had a chronic disease. Surely, you need to fill in forms for certain drugs which need to be approved by a doctor, but that's generally not an issue.
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:54 pm
by I_R_Powerpuff
Vote: i have universal, i want privatized
And with privatized, I want the system they have in Holland.
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:06 pm
by Tasdik
Privatized.
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:29 pm
by XemnasXD
SM-Count wrote:'Universal Health Care'... what does that even mean? 'Government Run Health Care' another word thrown around a lot, they don't mean anything specific, just a concept. Is this Obama's plan? What Germany has? What France has?
It's stupid to discuss something so vague because bs arguments are going to fly up everywhere. In this 'Universal Health Care' of yours, do welfare recipients get health care? Same level as employed people? Do permanent residents get health care or just citizens? Do International Students get health care? Do unemployed people get health care?
One of the large arguments against such a system (assuming all of the above was answered with a yes) is that it's very hard on the middle class. Companies no longer offer health care does not necessarily translate into higher wages, however, because of all the unemployed and those receiving welfare or below the poverty lines who pay no taxes but receive the same health care as employed people then the latter basically carries them.
If unemployed people don't receive health care, then, one, it's not universal health care, and two, up/mid class still pays for lower class plus they'd have to spend more money on extra stuff that the lower class would do without instead of just buying a private plan that covers more for less (i.e. not buying basic health care for other people) Even coverage's not going to be fantastic ($1+ tril for a couple hundred million for years to come)
You realize that in the US there are more people without healthcare than there are unemployed people right. You are right, most of the burden will fall on the middle class but thats the way its always been in the US. All federal run systems fall on the middle class, schools, highways, college aid, civic buildings. It won't be a huge dent in the taxes you already pay for and in my arguments the Pros of Universal Healthcare outweigh the cons.
This is a terrible topic to start a discussion like this cause really the poll is retarded and universal healthcare and US healthcare reform are two different things so im not sure whether you're just against the universal part or if you are against reform all together. Realize that the cost of healthcare is going up and up while the amount of competing insurance companies is going down and down. This creates a monopoly effect on a very lucrative industry that makes a business out of denying people coverage. Sanc isn't the only one who gets slammed with "preexisting condition." There is alot more to this topic where the US is concerned, im not sure if this is the place to do it though...
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:22 pm
by user
SM-Count wrote:'Universal Health Care'... what does that even mean? 'Government Run Health Care' another word thrown around a lot, they don't mean anything specific, just a concept. Is this Obama's plan? What Germany has? What France has? uh... universal health care is just that when everyone has access to health care, i have no idea to your other questions
It's stupid to discuss something so vague because bs arguments are going to fly up everywhere. In this 'Universal Health Care' of yours, do welfare recipients get health care? Same level as employed people? Do permanent residents get health care or just citizens? Do International Students get health care? Do unemployed people get health care? In Canada, I THINK if you are on welfare, you dont need to pay. Your coverage is the same as for others people, international students, permanent residents and citizens
One of the large arguments against such a system (assuming all of the above was answered with a yes) is that it's very hard on the middle class. Companies no longer offer health care does not necessarily translate into higher wages, however, because of all the unemployed and those receiving welfare or below the poverty lines who pay no taxes but receive the same health care as employed people then the latter basically carries them.
If unemployed people don't receive health care, then, one, it's not universal health care, and two, up/mid class still pays for lower class plus they'd have to spend more money on extra stuff that the lower class would do without instead of just buying a private plan that covers more for less (i.e. not buying basic health care for other people) Even coverage's not going to be fantastic ($1+ tril for a couple hundred million for years to come) true, i guess its really up your values, should you chip out for those who cant. are you okay seeing people dieing because they cannot afford health care
XemnasXD wrote:This is a terrible topic to start a discussion like this cause really the poll is retarded and universal healthcare and US healthcare reform are two different things so im not sure whether you're just against the universal part or if you are against reform all together. Realize that the cost of healthcare is going up and up while the amount of competing insurance companies is going down and down. This creates a monopoly effect on a very lucrative industry that makes a business out of denying people coverage. Sanc isn't the only one who gets slammed with "preexisting condition." There is alot more to this topic where the US is concerned, im not sure if this is the place to do it though...
I was talking health care in general, it seems that the argue for privatized health care that quality is alot of better with better equipments and short wait lists. Uh, yea, thats the main argue against privatized health care.
here is another film slamming the health care industry Code: Select all
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:34 pm
by Jstar1
if anything they should make pay cuts for doctors.
No one talks about pay cuts for doctors. Ok, they spend 10 years in school, but so do doctorates in engineering or law and their starting salary is like $85,000 while doctors fresh out of med school probably make close to $130,000. Specialized surgeons "make $282,504" only 1 year after getting a specialty. $280k a year? Thats so insanely bloated and outright disgusting. Make a salary cap so that americans dont have to shell out fucking $300 for a 30 minute check up.
Jstar1 wrote:if anything they should make pay cuts for doctors.
No one talks about pay cuts for doctors. Ok, they spend 10 years in school, but so do doctorates in engineering or law and their starting salary is like $85,000 while doctors fresh out of med school probably make close to $130,000. Specialized surgeons "make $282,504" only 1 year after getting a specialty. $280k a year? Thats so insanely bloated and outright disgusting. Make a salary cap so that americans dont have to shell out fucking $300 for a 30 minute check up.
So. How many uninsured people choose to be uninsured? (I'm uninsured by my father's choice) Why does one need a job to get insurance? You know what. Discussing things like this takes legwork (sources, citations, references, and testimonials.) You guys ever ask why it's so expensive or is it automatically due to greed? I'm for privatization, but what we have now is like psuedo-socialism. Not really privatized, and sure as hell not really universal.
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:50 pm
by Reise
I don't have health care/insurance because I'm broke right now. Paying to insurance companies just feeds the machine so I'd like to see some kind of gov. funded baseline that everyone who isn't able to afford privatized health care can get on. But then you hear stories of people dying in emergency rooms and all that garbage in countries with a system like that. And then there's the people who feel "entitled" to treatment because they pay more than the guy who's bleeding to death.
Kind of a shitty situation on all sides.
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:06 pm
by Aiyas
XemnasXD wrote:where is the "I have no healthcare and i want some" option....
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:34 pm
by SM-Count
uh... universal health care is just that when everyone has access to health care, i have no idea to your other questions
-_- Just gonna pretend you didn't post.
@Xem I do, that's why I included the below poverty line thing. I'm not going to discuss health care reform in US because, TBH, I have no Farking clue what I'm talking about. If anyone has a spin free web site that tells me the policies in the reform (http://www.healthreform.gov/ needs to be written in more favorable terms for Obama or else only 99% of the people reading it won't be aware of how bias it is) do share.
And I agree with Reise, I mean, insurance is a company, that means they make a profit. If you're young, I'd just chance it.
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:28 am
by XemnasXD
there is no real spin free website because there is no actually reform bill yet. Just a 1000 page outline but nothing set in concrete at all. You could find and read that i guess but i don't really think its worth it. At least your not shouting "death panels" though..
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:56 am
by SM-Count
Can you summarize it? Like, in 4 sentences?
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:00 am
by XemnasXD
the overall goal of US healthcare reform is
1. Giving people who don't have health care affordable options and coverage. 2. Putting regulations on all insurance companies so they stop screwing over the people who pay good money for them(sanc should have full coverage regardless of his type 1) 3. Lowering the overall cost of healthcare because its getting out of control.
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:29 am
by Mr.Ganji
Bar graph of healthcare spending per capita of the US compared to other OECD nations.
The costs of healthcare in the US are simply unacceptable. We have the highest healthcare costs in the world among all industrialized nations. As one of the strongest nations in the world, its pathetic to know that we cant even provide healthcare for our citizens.
Universal healthcare works for other countries. Wonderfully. Congress should at least give Obama's plan a shot and whether it works or not, we'll see. We're never gonna get anywhere by just talking.
Re: are you for or against universal health care?
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:50 am
by Barotix
Excuse my ignorance but where's the key for the graph? o.o
