I've been thinking about how humans being a little less more carnivorous and instead more herbivorous could actually solve a lot of our environmental problems. Just think humans get more energy from plants than they do animals. Only about 10% of the energy available within one trophic level is transfered to organisms at the next trophic level.
1.So let's say producers get 100% percent of energy from the sun. 2.Then 1st level consumers get 10% of energy from producers. 3.Then 2nd level consumers get 10% of energy from 1st level consumers or 1% of energy overall. 4.3rd lvl consumers get 10% from 2nd lvl consumers or .1% energy overall.
So look at it this way, 5000 grams of grain can nourish 500 grams of a chicken, but the chicken in turn only nourishes 50 grams of human tissue. By the time the chicken reaches us most of the nutrition is gone. So why not just eat the original stuff more often? It would partly solve the desertification and the deforestation problem in the way that it would eliminate the need to find grazing land for animals to feed on and we'd in a way conserve our resources. It could also be a way to strengthen the economies of developing countries. I'm not saying that we should cut meat completely out of our diets but we should move a little bit more over to the herbivore side. I don't EVER expect this to happen in any lifetime, but it's just a crazy idea I came across when I was thinking. It's not complete or perfect for that matter but just think about it.
Last edited by .Banshee on Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
.Banshee wrote:So why not just eat the original stuff more often? Because we need to feed animals to get their nutrients, also food cycle.
It would partly solve the desertification and the deforestation problem in the way that it would eliminate the need to find grazing land for animals to feed on and we'd in a way conserve our resources. No it wouldn't.
It could also be a way to strengthen the economies of developing countries. LOL, HOW?
Also, plants don't give us what we need. AFIAK, we get more out of meat than we do out of plants.
.Banshee wrote:So why not just eat the original stuff more often? Because we need to feed animals to get their nutrients, also food cycle.
It would partly solve the desertification and the deforestation problem in the way that it would eliminate the need to find grazing land for animals to feed on and we'd in a way conserve our resources. No it wouldn't.
It could also be a way to strengthen the economies of developing countries. LOL, HOW?
Also, plants don't give us what we need. AFIAK, we get more out of meat than we do out of plants.
Exactly, just wanted to post that.
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@X-Lax exactly why I didn't say to cut out meats entirely. and to correctly answer your incorrect information:
1. Because plants are autotrophs that make their food by using the sun's energy. Only 2% of the sun's energy is absorbed by plants and even during that process, energy is lost (as heat when the plant is producing food). When an animal eats that food from the plant (herbivore), 90% of that energy is lost during the transfer of energy and from the metabolic processes that are used to digest the plant food (as heat). When that animal is eaten by a carnivore (such as a carnivore like ourselves) there is energy lost in the process (about 90% again lost due to the metabolic breaking down of this food). Do the math.
2. It could solve the problem of deforestation and desertification because most of our forests and deserts are in developing countries in continents like Africa, South America, and the south eastern parts of Asia. And in those countries many people still herd cattle and the cattle graze on the grass and when the grass is depleted they must find more places for their cattle to graze and in turn they cut/burn down parts of forests to make grazing land for their cattle and so on. In turn that contributes to desertification(in the sahel region of Africa) especially in the Sahel region of Africa because then the elements can come in and erode away the nutrients.
3. It can improve economies of developing countries by helping preserve the forests and the resource of the forests can then be exported out for profit while still conserving the resources through replacing the forests. Not to mention this can also boost the tourism in a country if the particular forest in that country is a rainforest, because people will want to see all the interesting animals and plants inhabiting the rainforest, so they will pay for it. Get your info straight next time please.
.Banshee wrote:@ 2. It could solve the problem of deforestation and desertification because most of our forests and deserts are in developing countries in continents like Africa, South America, and the south eastern parts of Asia. And in those countries many people still herd cattle and the cattle graze on the grass and when the grass is depleted they must find more places for their cattle to graze and in turn they cut/burn down parts of forests to make grazing land for their cattle and so on. In turn that contributes to desertification(in the sahel region of Africa) especially in the Sahel region of Africa because then the elements can come in and erode away the nutrients.
Another reason people clearcut is to grow crops. If more people were vegans this problem would still exist.
Water resources will most likely be equally depleted.
The issue with the authors idea is that herbivores have different digestive systems to process the plants and can take more from it than the digestive system of a human.
XemnasXD wrote:also im not going to stop calling him a cosmic douche, anyone that knows everything about everything, then creates you knowing full you won't end up following the rules he's made up for you, then punishes you for all eternity for it....come on...thats just being a d*ck.
Xyzzzy wrote:Another reason people clearcut is to grow crops. If more people were vegans this problem would still exist. Careful and smart farming methods could slow down soil exhaustion and make the soil usable for years. But then yes trees would be cut, but not at the hectic and rapid pace as it is now.
Water resources will most likely be equally depleted. This one caught me by surprise^^. But I like challenges. Well most areas in which deforestation is occurring is the rain forest and rainforests have warm, humid, wet climates where rain is plentiful. In the Sahel, the crops farmed there are hardy, and can stand long periods of drought.
The issue with the authors idea is that herbivores have different digestive systems to process the plants and can take more from it than the digestive system of a human. Yes but the digestive system of a human digests plants more easily than meat.
Xyzzzy wrote:Another reason people clearcut is to grow crops. If more people were vegans this problem would still exist. Careful and smart farming methods could slow down soil exhaustion and make the soil usable for years. But then yes trees would be cut, but not at the hectic and rapid pace as it is now.
You do realize that deforestation has almost nothing to do with eating plants right?
Before you come around spewing your crap, provide me with a logical argument and then I will take you seriously.
I just linked deforestation to eating plants. So let me rephrase it for you. Eating plants means no need to find grazing land for cattle. Since a lot of deforestation happens because animals need grazing land, people cut/burn down forests to make grazing land. GET IT??
Xyzzzy wrote:Another reason people clearcut is to grow crops. If more people were vegans this problem would still exist. Careful and smart farming methods could slow down soil exhaustion and make the soil usable for years. But then yes trees would be cut, but not at the hectic and rapid pace as it is now. What happens when in these nations the famaliar problem of soil exhaustion comes into play. It comes from over use, poor farming techniques and things like farm equipment. You can't deny that land will be mismanaged you can't have that amount of space and control everyone
Water resources will most likely be equally depleted. This one caught me by surprise^^. But I like challenges. Well most areas in which deforestation is occurring is the rain forest and rainforests have warm, humid, wet climates where rain is plentiful. In the Sahel, the crops farmed there are hardy, and can stand long periods of drought. What makes you so certain that these areas will be viable for crops that can be consumed as staple foods cost effectively and safely?
The issue with the authors idea is that herbivores have different digestive systems to process the plants and can take more from it than the digestive system of a human. Yes but the digestive system of a human digests plants more easily than meat.But you're missing the point here. Even if its easier doesn't mean the correct nutrients can be drawn from the plant matter. The human digestive system is not built to digest cellulose. Thats middleschool biology stuff.
XemnasXD wrote:also im not going to stop calling him a cosmic douche, anyone that knows everything about everything, then creates you knowing full you won't end up following the rules he's made up for you, then punishes you for all eternity for it....come on...thats just being a d*ck.
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my gf is vegetarian. she doesnt eat any kind of meat. but eats eggs and stuff from milk. and lives well with it. her skin is just perfect, and shes not skinny (thx god for that).
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Cows fart and pollute the earth. A dead cow is a good cow. Eating them is better for the environment. Plus, aren't they purposely made so they can be eaten?
.Banshee wrote:Before you come around spewing your crap, provide me with a logical argument and then I will take you seriously.
I just linked deforestation to eating plants. So let me rephrase it for you. Eating plants means no need to find grazing land for cattle. Since a lot of deforestation happens because animals need grazing land, people cut/burn down forests to make grazing land. GET IT??
Sorry, i live in texas, we don't see many tree's near our grazing lands.
The cattle will still be there taking up room, no matter how much green you eat.
Halfjaw77 wrote:If there was a lifetime supply of this...
I dont think the problem is the type of food we eat, rather the amount of it. To truly save the environment we need to limit the amount of food we eat, or rather waste as a way to both cut down on green house gases made from creating said processed food and the packaging they contain. We live in a society where we dont have to work for a food anymore. its handed to us on silver platers as we drive, not walk, to a store which has the soul purpose of taking any difficulties and hardship out of gaining a meal. Because of the surplus of food in our lives we dont appreciate it, we through away thousands of kilos of food a year and in return create a lot more waste than what is actually needed.
But either way no one is ever going to make me change the way i eat. I eat insane amounts of food, i consume a lot of energy because i live an active life style and have a very fast metabolism. I've tried to put on some weight in the past but i just can;t seem to do it, no matter how much i eat i just seem to burn it all off ( i weigh 65 kg's and im nearly 6 foot ). I eat at least 3 serves of meat a day >_>
MrTwilliger wrote:I dont think the problem is the type of food we eat, rather the amount of it. To truly save the environment we need to limit the amount of food we eat, or rather waste as a way to both cut down on green house gases made from creating said processed food and the packaging they contain. We live in a society where we dont have to work for a food anymore. its handed to us on silver platers as we drive, not walk, to a store which has the soul purpose of taking any difficulties and hardship out of gaining a meal. Because of the surplus of food in our lives we dont appreciate it, we through away thousands of kilos of food a year and in return create a lot more waste than what is actually needed.
