Ramadan

[JuelzSantana]

for everyone telling me how im a fake muslim and how i dont have faith and how im a bad muslim and all that bull.

if u look in my first post in this topic.. i already said i was losing my faith and that i am going to renounce my religion. so stop pointing fingers like i dont already know im a horrible muslim. i dont care about religion anymore. if im a horrible muslim i know 1 thing, im a decent human being and i can live my life fine with that.

[PhoenixRider]

Thanks to the people who managed to keep this thread on topic.

I guess SRF has changed a lot since I last frequented here.

[John_Doe]

those aren't prophecies and they didn't get anything right. People back then didn't now anything about how a fetus formed or about stem cells or about all the different oceans. Whatever they wrote down in that book was an archaic belief that may or may not have happened that they stole from other religions and teachings anyway. You assume that because it was written in the books they were the first people to conceive these ideas but you are wrong, none of the Abrahamic books are original content.

Traditionally it was believed that all things were made up of Earth, Water, Fire, and Air. Today that easily translates into the states of matter. Solid, Liquid, Plasma, and Gas that we know all matter takes. Does this mean those guys knew what they were talking about. No it does not. You can't claim they have knowledge or prophesied something they didn't even understand. They may have said things and after translations and interpretations those things could be seen as modern facts but that does not mean they were right because none of them could prove or had any idea of what they were babbling about. Its the same as the Greeks and their elemental theory.

+1 It's like when Christian brought up the story of Jonah and the whale and how one sentence in the whole story mentioned a volcanoe mountain range, they attributed it to the mid atlantic ridge.

[Strwarrior]

for everyone telling me how im a fake muslim and how i dont have faith and how im a bad muslim and all that bull.

if u look in my first post in this topic.. i already said i was losing my faith and that i am going to renounce my religion. so stop pointing fingers like i dont already know im a horrible muslim. i dont care about religion anymore. if im a horrible muslim i know 1 thing, im a decent human being and i can live my life fine with that.

i didnt mean that YOU are fake muslim, u just have to know that its all destiny, she is in better place now (ur sis). u just need more faith.


@John_Doe ,
1st. its not random, its truth u cant make it look fake.
2nd. yea, muslims holy book, thats what i meant.
3rd. (this is an edit) , i dont want to fight or flame here, as in our holy book, Christians Edited somethings in their's.

@XemnasXD
yea, thats true actually, i meant by that that god exist and Muslims's book are not built in fakes and lies.
but muslims at that time , they just believe that god made this earth, they pray for him, and they dont bother about that things.. because they didnt have to proof that god exist, but i have to, because people say its not true.

[John_Doe]

for everyone telling me how im a fake muslim and how i dont have faith and how im a bad muslim and all that bull.

if u look in my first post in this topic.. i already said i was losing my faith and that i am going to renounce my religion. so stop pointing fingers like i dont already know im a horrible muslim. i dont care about religion anymore. if im a horrible muslim i know 1 thing, im a decent human being and i can live my life fine with that.

i didnt mean that YOU are fake muslim, u just have to know that its all destiny, she is in better place now (ur sis). u just need more faith.


@John_Doe ,
1st. its not random, its truth u cant make it look fake. True doesn't mean its truth though, present me with a whole essay in your book on the topic of expanding univerise or the development of the fetus or was that one qoute all that it was about it? One qoute doesn't make for very convincing evidence.
2nd. yea, muslims holy book, thats what i meant.
3rd. (this is an edit) , i dont want to fight or flame here, as in our holy book, Christians Edited somethings in their's. What makes your holy book better then theres? This is a civil debate. Just present your cause's and if I don't agree I tell you why.

@XemnasXD
yea, thats true actually, i meant by that that god exist and Muslims's book are not built in fakes and lies.
but muslims at that time , they just believe that god made this earth, they pray for him, and they dont bother about that things.. because they didnt have to proof that god exist, but i have to, because people say its not true. Truth be told back then if you didn't believe in one of the major religions you woulda been killed/ branded a hersey/ excommunicated or lose your political/economical/social status

[Strwarrior]

@john,

1st, its just my bad translating, if i could make a good translate.. u cant say anything, but i couldnt make good translate

2nd, what makes it better, that we DIDNT change it, how much books u have? u have more than 1 i think.. that make us different, god is not just having fun and send new books by time to time.. this is not a game.

3rd. u talking about islam? if u are.. that really really stupid.. we dont have such thing..

~Edit: *Goes to sleep, 3am >_< *

[John_Doe]

@john,

1st, its just my bad translating, if i could make a good translate.. u cant say anything, but i couldnt make good translate How can someone who can read and understand it not be able to translate it doesn't make sense. Please I really want you to prove me wrong, to leave me speechless, I want you to present me with undoubtable evidence.

2nd, what makes it better, that we DIDNT change it, And you can vouch for that how? how much books u have? u have more than 1 i think.. True there are more then one version of the bible, just as there are more then one version of your book. that make us different, god is not just having fun and send new books by time to time.. this is not a game. Now don't go assuming I'm christian. I only use the Bible as an example cause it's the staple religion in the USA.

3rd. u talking about islam? if u are.. that really really stupid.. we dont have such thing.. I hate to dig up history but if needed I can show you.

~Edit: *Goes to sleep, 3am >_< *

[Nitro]

Happy Ramadan to all Muslims.

[John_Doe]

2nd, what makes it better, that we DIDNT change it, And you can vouch for that how?

we have millions and millions of people who have memorized the Quran (holy book for Muslims) word by word. THEY can vouch for you. So, but the same could be said for the Bible, Hadith, Tripitaka, and Vedas It's been like this for thousand and more years.

Go out there, I am sure there are OVER BILLION copies of the Quran. You can not even find a lil sign different in any of them. Also I wouldn't just go out and start making little blunt statements like that, cause I sure as hell know you didn't read every version of the Quran in existence. It's pretty obvious copies of the same book isn't gonna be different, I remember saying

True there are more then one version of the bible, just as there are more then one version of your book.

The billion books can vouche for that. You can even find ancient copies of it if you go to Muslim countries. And whats to say I couldn't find ancient copies of the Bible, Hadith, Tripitaka, and Vedas and are all exactly the same and not changed in anyway? I can't really prove this but I am just barely musing the idea. They are all exactly the same and not changed in anyway.

[John_Doe]

first stop replying in MY QUOTE . No

2nd you're acting hmm Idk the word for it but you're acting like prejudice or whatever =p. You are clearly denieng a fact without any prooves on what you say. How? And you have proven your fact how? By asking me to ask millions of people to prove what you say is fact? So I'm the one that has to do the work to prove what you say is true? I've done nothing but question your "facts" no where in my posts have I presented some absolute fact.

So instead of showing me why your statement is correct your asking me to do the work that you should be doing? Is that how we do things now? I put forward a point then ask you to do the work?

And I'll lol if you say it's the same thing as Bible. It's know that there is over a 1000 versions of it but the Church had narrowed it to 3 books afai(remember).

http://answering-islam.org/Green/seven.htm

Code: Select all

http://answering-islam.org/Green/seven.htm

I didn't even have to travel around the world, someones already done it.

CONCLUSION. We began this article by considering the following claim made by a Muslim organisation about the Qur'an:
No other book in the world can match the Qur'an ... The astonishing fact about this book of ALLAH is that it has remained unchanged, even to a dot, over the last fourteen hundred years. ... No variation of text can be found in it. You can check this for yourself by listening to the recitation of Muslims from different parts of the world. (Basic Principles of Islam, p. 4, bold added)

I have checked this claim for myself by obtaining Qur'ans from different parts of the world and comparing them to see if they are absolutely identical. My research has revealed that this claim is wrong. The Qur'ans of the world are not absolutely identical. There are small differences in the basic letters, diacritical dots, and vowels. In fact there are Qur'ans which list these variants in their margin. This means that how the Qur'an is recited in different parts of the world is also not absolutely identical. This means that Islamic leaders should stop making exaggerated claims about the Qur'an. And since the Qur'an has variation within its text and oral tradition it is not superior to the Bible.

[Azilius]

2nd, what makes it better, that we DIDNT change it, And you can vouch for that how?

we have millions and millions of people who have memorized the Quran (holy book for Muslims) word by word. THEY can vouch for you. It's been like this for thousand and more years.

Go out there, I am sure there are OVER BILLION copies of the Quran. You can not even find a lil sign different in any of them. The billion books can vouche for that. You can even find ancient copies of it if you go to Muslim countries. They are all exactly the same and not changed in anyway.

I definitely remember this in religion class..The words were, "it is said that the quran has remain unchanged"..or something along those lines. Simply stating that every single book has word for word identity is a load of a shit though.

[JuelzSantana]

first stop replying in MY QUOTE . No

2nd you're acting hmm Idk the word for it but you're acting like prejudice or whatever =p. You are clearly denieng a fact without any prooves on what you say. How? And you have proven your fact how? By asking me to ask millions of people to prove what you say is fact? So I'm the one that has to do the work to prove what you say is true? I've done nothing but question your "facts" no where in my posts have I presented some absolute fact.

So instead of showing me why your statement is correct your asking me to do the work that you should be doing? Is that how we do things now? I put forward a point then ask you to do the work?

And I'll lol if you say it's the same thing as Bible. It's know that there is over a 1000 versions of it but the Church had narrowed it to 3 books afai(remember).

http://answering-islam.org/Green/seven.htm

Code: Select all

http://answering-islam.org/Green/seven.htm

I didn't even have to travel around the world, someones already done it.

CONCLUSION. We began this article by considering the following claim made by a Muslim organisation about the Qur'an:
No other book in the world can match the Qur'an ... The astonishing fact about this book of ALLAH is that it has remained unchanged, even to a dot, over the last fourteen hundred years. ... No variation of text can be found in it. You can check this for yourself by listening to the recitation of Muslims from different parts of the world. (Basic Principles of Islam, p. 4, bold added)

I have checked this claim for myself by obtaining Qur'ans from different parts of the world and comparing them to see if they are absolutely identical. My research has revealed that this claim is wrong. The Qur'ans of the world are not absolutely identical. There are small differences in the basic letters, diacritical dots, and vowels. In fact there are Qur'ans which list these variants in their margin. This means that how the Qur'an is recited in different parts of the world is also not absolutely identical. This means that Islamic leaders should stop making exaggerated claims about the Qur'an. And since the Qur'an has variation within its text and oral tradition it is not superior to the Bible.

well this was a belief i once had as well but i guess i was wrong about that to, good find doe

[TheDrop]

Funny how this thread went from some dude saying good luck to muslims for ramadan, to a religion vs. science debate, to a islam vs. other religions one

[Blurred]

The belief in a higher being > Religion

[zShared]

JuelzSantana's story really does beg the question, if God is so great, why doesn't he prevent terrorism, poverty, war, selfishness, greed? Why would he want to make his 'children' suffer like that?

[Christian answer]
He wouldn't want to make / see his children suffer. It wasn't suppose to be like this. As soon as Eve took a bite from the fruit (Or whatever you'd like to call it) of the tree of knowledge we were doomed.
[/Christian answer]
One day it will be as it was once suppose to be though.

@Juelz sorry for your loss.. but I don't think it's a reason to renounce your religion. God did give us free will though, so it is your choice to do as you wish.

@Blurred care to explain? Religion is the belief in a higher being, called God.

Oh and .. happy, merry ramadan.

[Blurred]

JuelzSantana's story really does beg the question, if God is so great, why doesn't he prevent terrorism, poverty, war, selfishness, greed? Why would he want to make his 'children' suffer like that?

[Christian answer]
He wouldn't want to make / see his children suffer. It wasn't suppose to be like this. As soon as Eve took a bite from the fruit (Or whatever you'd like to call it) of the tree of knowledge we were doomed.
[/Christian answer]
One day it will be as it was once suppose to be though.

@Juelz sorry for your loss.. but I don't think it's a reason to renounce your religion. God did give us free will though, so it is your choice to do as you wish.

@Blurred care to explain? Religion is the belief in a higher being, called God.

Oh and .. happy, merry ramadan.

That's not a Christian answer.

And religion is the belief of a higher being, but you can believe in a stronger power without believing in religion. I believe there is a higher power out there, I just don't agree with the way religions put it out to be. I believe we came from something, and not just a loud bang in the Universe. Whether it's evil or not, I know something with enough energy had to create us.

[Amarisa]

im a muslim.. but im also 20 years old now and have been studying science / medicine.. and day by day i keep losing faith in allah. my sister was only 28 years old and she died from cancer. it makes you wonder what type of god would do that to a family let alone a person..

so this ramadan i will not be participating.. and im probably going to renounce my religion because in my eyes.. god does not exist anymore.

That's legit. I was a devout Catholic for the 1st 16 years of my life.

No, its not legit. Blaming God for the death of a family member is ridiculous. Do you really believe that just because you practice a religion God will somehow give you immunity to any sort of disaster or catastrophe? Hell no. What about soldiers who die in war? How come God doesn't protect them?

God exists. But he doesn't do anything for us. He's just there.

i will just drop this off for you

Code: Select all

[Blurred]

I'm going to look at it from a "smart" Christians point of view. A smart Christian would tell you that the reason god allows deaths, and evil to occur is because god created free will. He has given us the freedom to decide how we will act and the ability to make moral choices. In addition, God could of really just removed all evil from this earth by simply removing our ability to choose evil. He could have made us all into puppets, or marionettes on strings that he pulls. By taking away our ability to choose it, evil would vanish; however, God doesn't want that. He wants to be loved and obeyed by creatures who voluntarily choose to do so. Love is not genuine if there is no other option. That is looking at it from a Christians Point of View.

[John_Doe]

I'm going to look at it from a "smart" Christians point of view. A smart Christian would tell you that the reason god allows deaths, and evil to occur is because god created free will. I thought it was be cause of the snake and the apple? The whole eating the apple then being kicked out of Eden. He has given us the freedom to decide how we will act and the ability to make moral choices. Not really, by allowing the entity that is religion to exist you ether follow their way of conducted or your already destined for Hell. In addition, God could of really just removed all evil from this earth by simply removing our ability to choose evil. He could have made us all into puppets, or marionettes on strings that he pulls. By taking away our ability to choose it, evil would vanish; however, God doesn't want that. There really isn't an option in the first place its God or Hell, now any sane person wouldn't choose Hell, therefor what do you have left? Only obedience. He wants to be loved and obeyed by creatures who voluntarily choose to do so. Love is not genuine if there is no other option. That is looking at it from a Christians Point of View. Why can't we choose to not like him? In the end he's still forcing cause its him or Hell.

[zShared]

That's not a Christian answer.

Care to elaborate?
|
|
V

I'm going to look at it from a "smart" Christians point of view. A smart Christian would tell you that the reason god allows deaths, and evil to occur is because god created free will. He has given us the freedom to decide how we will act and the ability to make moral choices. In addition, God could of really just removed all evil from this earth by simply removing our ability to choose evil. He could have made us all into puppets, or marionettes on strings that he pulls. By taking away our ability to choose it, evil would vanish; however, God doesn't want that. He wants to be loved and obeyed by creatures who voluntarily choose to do so. Love is not genuine if there is no other option. That is looking at it from a Christians Point of View.

I agree.. isn't that what I said in my "Christian answer"?
Not in the same words, but I think it had the same meaning.
He gave us free will. The power to choose to do what ever we want.
Eve chose to eat from the tree, and that is why there is evil in our world, sin.

@John.. well, so what tbh? If you believe in him - then you also believe he created you and gave you everything you have. He isn't asking for much from you, just your love... why would you choose not to love him?
And if you didn't believe in him, then that also would mean that Hell isn't real. No ultimate consequences to your actions.. so why not do as you please.

[cpinney]

you guys aren't gonna clean this up...?

nah, its stayed ontopic for the most part, im surprised really, i expected to come back after i wrote that to 4 pages of flames and having to ban 3+ people. even tho there was a lil flame, it wasnt anything to bad and it cooled off. so lets keep it this way

[Blurred]

I'm going to look at it from a "smart" Christians point of view. A smart Christian would tell you that the reason god allows deaths, and evil to occur is because god created free will. I thought it was be cause of the snake and the apple? The whole eating the apple then being kicked out of Eden. He has given us the freedom to decide how we will act and the ability to make moral choices. Not really, by allowing the entity that is religion to exist you ether follow their way of conducted or your already destined for Hell. In addition, God could of really just removed all evil from this earth by simply removing our ability to choose evil. He could have made us all into puppets, or marionettes on strings that he pulls. By taking away our ability to choose it, evil would vanish; however, God doesn't want that. There really isn't an option in the first place its God or Hell, now any sane person wouldn't choose Hell, therefor what do you have left? Only obedience. He wants to be loved and obeyed by creatures who voluntarily choose to do so. Love is not genuine if there is no other option. That is looking at it from a Christians Point of View. Why can't we choose to not like him? In the end he's still forcing cause its him or Hell.

I thought it was be cause of the snake and the apple? The whole eating the apple then being kicked out of Eden.

That's the reason why people lost there connection with god. The reasons why we feel pain, it was a way of god punishing us.(Christian answers I'm giving here! I am not a christian)

Not really, by allowing the entity that is religion to exist you ether follow their way of conducted or your already destined for Hell.

No, You have free will; however, the day you die you will be judged on YOUR decisions. It's like murdering someone, you have the freewill to do it, but if you get caught you must face your consequences.

There really isn't an option in the first place its God or Hell, now any sane person wouldn't choose Hell, therefor what do you have left? Only obedience.

Read above.

Why can't we choose to not like him? In the end he's still forcing cause its him or Hell.

Who says you can't?

EDIT: I am answering as a Christian would do so, I am not a christian. I ONLY believe in a higher being.

[XemnasXD]

you guys aren't gonna clean this up...?

nah, its stayed ontopic for the most part, im surprised really, i expected to come back after i wrote that to 4 pages of flames and having to ban 3+ people. even tho there was a lil flame, it wasnt anything to bad and it cooled off. so lets keep it this way

*mumble*i'd ban ppl, i'd ban lots of ppl*mumble*

[cpinney]

you guys aren't gonna clean this up...?

nah, its stayed ontopic for the most part, im surprised really, i expected to come back after i wrote that to 4 pages of flames and having to ban 3+ people. even tho there was a lil flame, it wasnt anything to bad and it cooled off. so lets keep it this way

*mumble*i'd ban ppl, i'd ban lots of ppl*mumble*

yeah thats what i thought. but i am pretty laid back for the most part.

[John_Doe]

That's the reason why people lost there connection with god. The reasons why we feel pain, it was a way of god punishing us.(Christian answers I'm giving here! I am not a christian)

So christians must suffer for the sins of 2 people from the past?

No, You have free will; however, the day you die you will be judged on YOUR decisions. It's like murdering someone, you have the freewill to do it, but if you get caught you must face your consequences.

I don't really see freewill when the options are just God or Hell? This isn't Egypt where you die and get judge by Anubis. Not even close.

Who says you can't?

The fact that we'll burn alive for eternity in Hell says we can't.

@John.. well, so what tbh? If you believe in him - then you also believe he created you and gave you everything you have. He isn't asking for much from you, just your love... why would you choose not to love him? Because he's causeing everybody to suffer because of some idiot who offend him ages ago for eating an apple. Atleast thats what I would say if I was Christian.
And if you didn't believe in him, then that also would mean that Hell isn't real. No ultimate consequences to your actions.. so why not do as you please. And that's why were still not in the Dark Ages.

[Skyve]

Proud Muslim Althought this Ramadan is killing me And its gonna get harder and harder the years following because the sun will go down later on the day Right now I get up at 4:30 AM so I get about half an hour to get then I have to wait till 8:43 PM.(Every day 2 mins is reduced)

[Blurred]

That's the reason why people lost there connection with god. The reasons why we feel pain, it was a way of god punishing us.(Christian answers I'm giving here! I am not a christian)

So christians must suffer for the sins of 2 people from the past?

No, You have free will; however, the day you die you will be judged on YOUR decisions. It's like murdering someone, you have the freewill to do it, but if you get caught you must face your consequences.

I don't really see freewill when the options are just God or Hell? This isn't Egypt where you die and get judge by Anubis. Not even close.

Who says you can't?

The fact that we'll burn alive for eternity in Hell says we can't.

@John.. well, so what tbh? If you believe in him - then you also believe he created you and gave you everything you have. He isn't asking for much from you, just your love... why would you choose not to love him? Because he's causeing everybody to suffer because of some idiot who offend him ages ago for eating an apple. Atleast thats what I would say if I was Christian.
And if you didn't believe in him, then that also would mean that Hell isn't real. No ultimate consequences to your actions.. so why not do as you please. And that's why were still not in the Dark Ages.

Like I said, I don't really get religion, and I was basing my answers off what a christian would think.

I do believe something had to create us. Just not what these religions have to offer.

[Breed]

I'm pretty open to all ideas, but the idea of a mystical being that chills out and creates life is as likely as dust farting one day and thus creating life.

[Sk8board]

Proud Muslim Althought this Ramadan is killing me And its gonna get harder and harder the years following because the sun will go down later on the day Right now I get up at 4:30 AM so I get about half an hour to get then I have to wait till 8:43 PM.(Every day 2 mins is reduced)

Proud Muslim my self, I get up at 4 AM to eat and wait till 7:18 to eat.

[rek]

im a muslim.. but im also 20 years old now and have been studying science / medicine.. and day by day i keep losing faith in allah. my sister was only 28 years old and she died from cancer. it makes you wonder what type of god would do that to a family let alone a person..

so this ramadan i will not be participating.. and im probably going to renounce my religion because in my eyes.. god does not exist anymore.

I'm actually ashamed of you. You're questining God just cause your sister had Cancer. Do you NOT KNOW ANYTHING about Islam? You're faith in Allah is extremely weak, almost none. So, I'm asking to stop going around and calling yourself a fatihfull Muslim. You're just emberassing Islam.

Who gave you that sister? God. Who took it away from you? God. Go read some books before you make statements lik that. If you actually knew anything at all, you would know that our Prophet (pbuh.) lost his Father, Mother, Uncle, most Relatives, lost 3 wives, lost sons.

So, don't you dare say what kind of God would do that.

first and foremost, fuck you.

do you know what its like for me? before you go pointing fingers at me and judging me why dont you listen to the real story.

my sister had cancer of the appendix. probably the rarest cancer on the planet. why she got it nobody knows. but the cancer got in her lymph system. it spread to her entire body. november she was a normal happy young woman but in may you could see the difference. it came to the point i didn't even want to go to the hospital to see her. and now i have to live with that shame and guilt every single day of my life. i skipped school to see her one day and all my family was there crying. she was asleep and i got the news she was going to die any day. not to mention my birthday was 2 weeks away. when she woke up she immediately started crying. do u know what it must have been like for her? i had to leave because i did not want to cry in front of her. she told my mom she was crying because she was scared she wouldnt see me anymore. the night before my sister died. me and my younger brother went to go see her in the hospital. she refused pain meds because they made her unconscious and she wanted to be able to interact with us.. i tried to make her laugh and stuff but the cancer was already so far gone in that it was even effecting her brain. my own sister a very intelligent and beautiful woman was suffering like this and i couldnt do anything to help her. the next morning she died while i was asleep. my mom was sleeping at the hospital with her. she said her last words were "help me". do you know how angry i was? do you know what it is like to know your sisters last words were fucking help me??? do u know what its like to have to see your mom and your dad both crying? and to end this nightmare me and my brother both have to work to help pay for the mortgage of the house because all our money went to my sisters surgeries. i might have to take semesters off from school to save up. i will have to raise my niece because her father is already dead and now her mother to. and my parents aren't getting any younger.

life for me is rough. im not getting any handouts or any bullsht like that im struggling so before you criticize me.. do me a favor you and allah go fuck yourself

I got a little teary eyed.


anywho;
Goodluck with it.