XemnasXD wrote:show me test, research, testimony, proof that a soul does not exist and then you'll be right.
This argument is over. Your going in circles. Your saying that you don't believe in a hierarchy but you believe in significance. Your saying that relationships (part of existence) have meaning but not everything else. You've introduced 4 separate ideals on how the universe works have not as i asked placed them into a statement that does not contradict itself and yet your saying you've held the same position the whole time. Now running out all options you've reduced this to Reises aka 4chans level and just said prove me wrong.
You're out theories. You're out of anything to back up what you say. You don't have an argument anymore.
The only thing you can say is prove me wrong. Congratulations your blindly following a path without questioning it in the footsteps of every other organized religion out there.
im done....theres nothing left to pick up
God, you really are as dumb as you sound. You can't win an argument and falsely accusing someone of arguing in circles. The burden of proof is on you, my friend, to prove a soul exists, since you claim it does. The proof I have is in its absence. If something is not experimentally verifiable and testable we cannot claim it exists. It's like String Theory. It holds tons more water than your "theory" because even it can mathematically make sense, but until we can experiment to prove/disprove it, it remains an unfalsifiable theory. Therefore, it's not a full, sound theory. Talk about faith....seriously man, you faith in something called a soul.....FFS you might as well replace the word sould with heaven and become a christian. You really do not get it. I swear, it's like arguing with a 5th grader. Except this 5th grader is an unjustifiable arrogrant arse The thing I have said, and stressed OVER AND OVER again, but you can't seem to wrap your feeble little mind around is, significance comes FROM humans, it doesn't exist in and of itself...YOU give something significancee..you determine it...nothing else does, no other "being" or spirit" or what the F ever you want to say....there is no ethereal "something else" that gives something its significance. and, I don't believe in a hierarchy..I believe somethings are larger, yes. I believe all things in and of themselves are inconsequential. relationships have significance because WE give them significance, but do they have significance REALLY? no. AGain, like I said, if we were all wiped off the face of the earth tomorrow, it would not matter. Nothing would be different except our absence. the universe would not go in a tail spin...the solar system wouldn't implode..nothing....you'd be dead, and you couldn't think about it or say "damn, you know, it really sucks I'm dead and it's so terrible my girlfriend is dead too, she was so nice" no, you can't htink that, because your dead and you don't go to heaven and you don't live as a ghost or a spirit or a soul.....jesus, you might as well believe in freakin' unicorns man. To have the audacity to say I'm blindly believing in faith..wow, man, you're seriously believing in something you can not see, smell, taste, hear or test experimentally, in any way. You're just going on a hunch..an idea..a belief...while I'm going on scientific consensus...you show me in the laws of physics where it says, "the motion of x is related to the soul of y" and I will concede this argument. you can't, because it doesn't exist. But, hell, go search out for that experiment...I challenge you to find a soul..show it to me...I'm dying to see a soul...they must be really cool to see and play with...or whatever you do with a soul..I mean, what does a soul do? tell me that? where is it..where can I find one?????? oh, is it inside me? well shit, how come I don't know it? Oh, because it's invisible? well, certainly there are other ways to feel it or see it, just like you can use different imaging tools to see UV, Gamma or Xrays...no? Hmm...well, it just MUST be there, right? It HAS to be right? because if it's not, then what the hell does that mean? that when we die, we just die? oh no! scary!!!! shut up child...
Your clearly getting upset by this and its starting to show in your writing. I already proved you were contradicting yourself when you said our existence is insignificant. If you didn't understand it re-read it and keep doing that until it dawns on you. Science has proven as i have stated b4 that everything you see, hear, taste, touch, and smell is merely an illusion created by our bodies inability to process the raw data of reality So we see colors when in actuality there is only vibrations. We hear sounds when in actuality they its merely louder vibrations bouncing off our ear drum. We feel solid material when Science has proven all things are made of atoms and atoms are mostly empty space. Do you see how much Faith you have in things that science has proven aren't really there?
Its possible when you die thats it there is no afterlife. Does that take meaning away from existence, no. We already agree that existence is based on personal perspectives it took you 3 theories to come to that conclusion but eventually you got there. You seem unable to distinguish significance and meaning. Meaning and purpose go hand in hand for the meaning of something is only one of its possible purposes. Significance is perception, meaning is absolute. The purpose of an object encompasses everything that that object is capable of. Therefore you may find one meaning in a wrench and i may find another but the fact is that the wrench has meanings, multiple meanings multiple purposes. Just because you don't experience one or more of somethings meaning or purpose doesn't make it not exist. Your assuming that because you can't interact with something it must not be real and for you it has no meaning and then your arrogance becomes further apparent by basically stating that because you cannot see the meaning or purpose of an object it does not matter to you. Thats like saying what goes in in other countries doesn't affect me because i cannot see it or interact with it and it does not directly interact with me.
A universe without Earth is a Universe without Earth. You cannot presume to know that it will have no impact on anything you have NO tangible solid proof that it WILL have no impact on anything. None whatsoever. So basically your taking a leap of faith because without proof there is only faith. You have faith that Without earth the universe will move on just fine and you have faith that our existence over-all in terms of the whole universe is meaningless. If i am guilty of having faith in a soul, you are guilty of having faith (not proof) that our existence is meaningless. Which in all honest opinions is quite a poor thing to have faith in.
You cannot prove that existence of the individual is meaningless any more than i can prove that it has meaning. We are both taking leaps of faith with nothing scientific to back either of us up so stop pretending to shove science down my throat like you know how to use it, like i said im majoring in Chemistry i think i know a bit more about the application of the laws of science than you. You cannot state that because i cannot prove im right that you are right especially in this case because YOU cannot prove that you are right in which case that would make me right.
The Absence of evidence is not evidence of Absence it is merely the Absence of evidence. Evidence that may yet be discovered.
Theres nothing more to argue here like i said your out of ideas. You keep saying you stressed the same thing over and over again but if you read what i posted i agreed awhile back that significance of existence is perspective so you are wasting your breath if you keep saying it over and over again....oh yeah next time cut the drama out. The last few lines were like a poor script.....!1!!!!oneoneone111
signatures by Hostage Co. <3 ~PoP is DEAD! My sTyLe is Supa-Flat!!~
I still believe the universe is so expansive that there's bound to be everything humanity can and will imagine out there somewhere. Even tooth fairies and souls, and maybe sexy, skin-tight suit wearing space bounty hunter ladies.
Reise wrote:I still believe the universe is so expansive that there's bound to be everything humanity can and will imagine out there somewhere. Even tooth fairies and souls, and maybe sexy, skin-tight suit wearing space bounty hunter ladies.
well tooth faires will never exist but thigns with wings will and does
souls is basically the function of our brain so already exist
and sexy is all on opinion base so that one exist as well
If the concept of us being all one consciousness's and us being one thing that lives endless through the cycle of nature the only clear emotion would be understanding . we be in a utopia
XemnasXD wrote:Your clearly getting upset by this and its starting to show in your writing.
Nope, I'm fine
I already proved you were contradicting yourself when you said our existence is insignificant.
No, you did not. You just can't understand the different levels and ways of perceiving things. Your over self-inflated ego has prohibited you from understanding what is really quite simple. Our existance is insignificant AND it is significant. I'll let you ponder that, but if you can't reconcile that, then you really do have a limited capacity for analyitical thought.
Science has proven as i have stated b4 that everything you see, hear, taste, touch, and smell is merely an illusion created by our bodies inability to process the raw data of reality So we see colors when in actuality there is only vibrations. We hear sounds when in actuality they its merely louder vibrations bouncing off our ear drum. We feel solid material when Science has proven all things are made of atoms and atoms are mostly empty space.
No, you claim that psychology courses you took proclaimed this. This is not scientific fact. It's not an illusion that we can see just as it is not an illusion that single-celled organisms can't see, smell, or hear. Our sense of touch can't perceive the individual atoms, because we need finer tools to do so since they are so small....so, particle accelerators and such allow us to actually "see" these things..still can't feel them, but we can see them. our eyes aren't strong enough to detect individual protons, but we know from experiment that they are there (and that light behaves as a particle AND a wave). Does this mean that the energy the emit in the form of light or heat or whatever is an illusion? NO! We see it because it is radiation and can be seen..we feel it becaues it's radiation and it's hot and it's REAL. It's not an illusion man. C'mon. We could make observations, such as viewing light, seeing stars/galaxies etc, feel gravity, so we experimented to get to the "bottom" of what causes that phenomenon. What you're talking about, with a "soul" or whatever, is not a phenomenon. It's a gut feeling. How the hell can you experiment on a gut feeling. Develop the tools necessary to show me how, and then prove to me that your soul exists, and I"ll buy your crap. As for the meaning of life or whether or not life is significant, I've thoroughly explained my position, but you can't seem to wrap your head around it, so, well, that's your problem. You can go head and live in the mystical realm of faithfully believing in something that isn't htere. Have fun!
Do you see how much Faith you have in things that science has proven aren't really there?
For someone that doens't understand physics, or any science besides what, psychology?? you really talk about a bunch of stuff you probably shouldn't. And I've already addressed this.....
meaning is absolute.
So, you use this, and after claiming that significance is in the eye of the beholder, yet you go on to use your wrench example which you also claim is in the eye of the beholder. How can meaning be absolute yet interpretable? YOU my friend are contradicting yourself.
A universe without Earth is a Universe without Earth. You cannot presume to know that it will have no impact on anything you have NO tangible solid proof that it WILL have no impact on anything. None whatsoever. So basically your taking a leap of faith because without proof there is only faith. You have faith that Without earth the universe will move on just fine and you have faith that our existence over-all in terms of the whole universe is meaningless. If i am guilty of having faith in a soul, you are guilty of having faith (not proof) that our existence is meaningless. Which in all honest opinions is quite a poor thing to have faith in.
No, this is false. You're guilty, not me. There are scientific models that can, and have, been run that show the course of events following say, the destruction of the sun, which then in turn, means the end of most of the solar system. Stars die, go super nova, turn into black holes, etc all the time, all over the universe, which is 13.7 billion years old. Thnk of how many stars have come and gone, destroying the nearby planets with them. We can actually see these things happening, albeit in the past, since looking into space is looking into the past. Yet, you tell me how we are effected. You tell me how the universe as a whole is affected. Sure, if a nearby star goes supernova...say Alpha or proxima centauri, then we have some shit coming our way, and that would suck, if not for anything else but for the gamma ray burst we would experience (which has been modeled). But, those same stars (or our sun) doing the same thing wouldn't do ANYTHING to a star or planet system 5 billion light years away. If you can't comprehend the size and scope of the universe, then, well, that's your loss.
You cannot prove that existence of the individual is meaningless any more than i can prove that it has meaning. We are both taking leaps of faith with nothing scientific to back either of us up so stop pretending to shove science down my throat like you know how to use it, like i said im majoring in Chemistry i think i know a bit more about the application of the laws of science than you. You cannot state that because i cannot prove im right that you are right especially in this case because YOU cannot prove that you are right in which case that would make me right.
The Absence of evidence is not evidence of Absence it is merely the Absence of evidence. Evidence that may yet be discovered.
The last few lines were like a poor script.....!1!!!!oneoneone111
a theory is a mathematical or logical explanation, or a testable model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation. It follows from this that for scientists "theory" and "fact" do not necessarily stand in opposition. For example, it is a fact that an apple dropped on earth has been observed to fall towards the center of the planet, and the theories commonly used to describe and explain this behaviour are Newton's theory of universal gravitation (see also gravitation), and general relativity.
a theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it can in everyday speech. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena. It originates from or is supported by experimental evidence (see scientific method). In this sense, a theory is a systematic and formalized expression of all previous observations, and is predictive, logical, and testable. As such, scientific theories are essentially the equivalent of what everyday speech refers to as facts.
So, what theory do you have for this soul??? Mr. Chemistry
All the stuff i said about the world you sense being an illusion is true. Science backs it and maintains it. Different beings have different realities. If butterfly could talk they'd explain that don't see the world as we see it because butterflies see in Ultra-violet. Does that that make the butterflies reality anymore false. No. The hottest thing in the universe if it were conscious would not understand the concept of heat, only the concept of cold because the concept of heat would not apply to it. Reality is perspective that is not arguable and if you try then im going to assume your to dumb to understand the concept and simply ignore it.
Again you presume to know everything while at the same time saying it doesn't apply to you. All the models in the world cannot predict the future. That is a fact. They are models because they are to small or to large to use for actual experimentation and representations. Because you do not know the future you can only predict the outcome of a situation. Scientist can only predict that if Proxima Centauri or Rigil Kentaurus were to go supernova we would be hit by gamma rays. That doesn't make it fact because a alot of things could interfere with the gamma rays reaching earth.
You cannot prove that will happen you can only make an educated guess, a theory. And If you knew anything about Physics you'd know that right now some of Einsteins theories which most ppl assumed were facts have been disproved because while they work on a physical level they don't work an a sub-atomic level. The laws of physics are not concrete they are only theories educated guess, well thought out, yes, but that does not make them fact and the scientific community has proven that laws can be broken. So if you are placing so much FAITH in science in laws and rules that can be broken or changed or edited or fixed what kind of reality are you living in?
You view the soul as gut feeling but like someone already said science has recorded data that after taking into account all the bodies energy, weight, and mass when a person dies they lose a certain amount of or all that cannot be accounted for. Wheres the theory to explain this phenomena? Do you have have the answer because right now no one else does.
You just can't understand the different levels and ways of perceiving things.
That really made me laugh. You who have changed your premise so many times and yet think its been the same and never once has you dared to think outside your theory that a soul does not exist. You don't even understand the concept of subjective reality which only exist because it is back up by scientific proof and evidence lol.
You believe in a reality that is subject to change and yet you act like its absolute. You are narrow-minded and doing a poor job of acting condescending. Your arguments are based on theories which can be sometimes flat out wring as science has proven time and time again. You are no different than ppl in the middle ages when they believed that the earth revolved around the sun and when faced with a new perspective ignored it and fell back on the tried and true theories that they had believed for so long. They were wrong just as you May be wrong. If the soul is just unexplainable energy science has proven that it exist as i have stated above.
You view the soul as something mystical and magical and cannot get that idea out of your head whereas i believe the soul is just another form of energy, the energy that makes all matter possible and we may very well find it. Science once told us the world was made of atomic particles and that they were the smallest things in existence. Now science tells us that atomic particles are made of sub-atomic particles, those particles are probably made of something else and so on and so on until you reach the original base of all matter which is most likely the soul, a single energy force that connects everything in the universe that perpetuates itself by inhabiting all things in existence. You wanted a theory there is my theory. I was incorrect to say i was taking a leap of faith. My ideals have more scientific evidence to back them up than any theory you come up with that proves the soul does not exist. And yes if the soul does not exist so me the scientific theory that states its impossibility. You cannot.
And yes im extremely witty
btw since i came up with a theory for you and it seems pretty sound i'd like you to combine your original ideas 1-4 into a single statement that doesn't contradict itself. If you can do that i'll admit you never contradicted yourself with your theory of significance.
signatures by Hostage Co. <3 ~PoP is DEAD! My sTyLe is Supa-Flat!!~
a soul is someone everyone posesses. a soul is your character, which is allways the same. if you die, your soul will wait a life time(if you died on like, 89 of age, your soul will dwell for 89 years) before it will get reborn in a new body. a 'Ghost' is actually a soul dwelling between 2 different planes. even though the character of somebody will stay the same, all the memories of that character will disappear because of all the traveling between the planes. A soul can be summoned, but if the life-time has expired then the soul will come into a new body and make new memories, so it can't be summoned anymore after that.
u would think that in a hundred years of the first documented soul experiment, someone else would have produced credible empirical evidence of a soul. there is no proof of a soul.
[quote="XemnasXD"]All the stuff i said about the world you sense being an illusion is true. Science backs it and maintains it. Different beings have different realities. If butterfly could talk they'd explain that don't see the world as we see it because butterflies see in Ultra-violet. Does that that make the butterflies reality anymore false. No. The hottest thing in the universe if it were conscious would not understand the concept of heat, only the concept of cold because the concept of heat would not apply to it. Reality is perspective that is not arguable and if you try then im going to assume your to dumb to understand the concept and simply ignore it.
First, your wrong here. There is NO scientific statement that says reality is an illusion. That is philosophy my friend. you said it yourself, they see things differently. I agree. Does it make it more "false" no. It is just as real, it's viewed differently because they have different "tools" to pereceive what they see. Is it an illusion? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. An illusion is something that is deceiving, a trick. Something that we think is there but really isn't. Your soul, my friend, is an illusion. You want it to be there so bad. In the form of energy or what have you, which, is a contradiction from what you originally posted. First you said a soul is what gives us meaning and helps tie us to the universe. That's spiritual my friend. Now you say, well, no, a soul is left over energy. And then you make the claim, based on someone else's bogus post, that there is scientific proof that there is a soul because energy is left over. Well, that study is a joke and you know it. You're grasping at straws. Hell, show me that study if you're so confident. I'd LOVE to read it. First you say that science and theory do not equal fact. Then you say that science has proven or disproven various phenomena (which by the way, is false because no scientific paper, theory, etc. exists which claims, mathematically/experimentally, etc that what we see, hear, taste, smell or touch is an illusion or that there is a soul) You claim that scientific theories cannot prove things because their "educated guesses" - which if you knew anything from a elementary science course you would know that an educated guess is something completely different...look up hypothesis and you're gettng warm - then you claim forcefully that science HAS indeed proven/disproven certain things. You want the best of both worlds and pick and choose based on what fits your argument. All the while sound like an 8th grader.
And, I'd venture to say I know quite a bit more about physics than you do, so don't play that card.
Again you presume to know everything while at the same time saying it doesn't apply to you. All the models in the world cannot predict the future. That is a fact. They are models because they are to small or to large to use for actual experimentation and representations. Because you do not know the future you can only predict the outcome of a situation. Scientist can only predict that if Proxima Centauri or Rigil Kentaurus were to go supernova we would be hit by gamma rays. That doesn't make it fact because a alot of things could interfere with the gamma rays reaching earth.
You cannot prove that will happen you can only make an educated guess, a theory. And If you knew anything about Physics you'd know that right now some of Einsteins theories which most ppl assumed were facts have been disproved because while they work on a physical level they don't work an a sub-atomic level. The laws of physics are not concrete they are only theories educated guess, well thought out, yes, but that does not make them fact and the scientific community has proven that laws can be broken. So if you are placing so much FAITH in science in laws and rules that can be broken or changed or edited or fixed what kind of reality are you living in?
You view the soul as gut feeling but like someone already said science has recorded data that after taking into account all the bodies energy, weight, and mass when a person dies they lose a certain amount of or all that cannot be accounted for.
This is not peer-reviewed and is highly suspect. Show me this study.....please!!!
That really made me laugh. You who have changed your premise so many times and yet think its been the same and never once has you dared to think outside your theory that a soul does not exist.
It's not my theory that a soul doesn't exist...it's your theory that one does exist and the burden of proof is on you to prove it..or someone to prove it, which to date no one has. If you do, you'll win a nobel prize guaranteed.
You don't even understand the concept of subjective reality which only exist because it is back up by scientific proof and evidence lol.
Wait, so you're telling me subjective reality exists ONLY because science proves it? Proves what? You sitll haven't answered this. You keep talking about how science has proven this and that, yet you're talking out of your arse and you know it. Further, science deals with objective reality.
You believe in a reality that is subject to change and yet you act like its absolute.
No, I believe everyone interprets their own reality of the world around them based on experience, relationships, etc. This goes back to "significance". You keep changing the terms of the argument. First we're talking about souls, then, existence and conciousness, then meaningfullness and significance, now you're talking about reality. The OBJECTIVE reality is based in science. What you believe in terms of religion, friendships, love, emotion, etc is subject to change and be dynamic. But you cannot objectively quantify a soul or a spirit or love or any of that other stuff. It doesn't mean we, as humans don't feel things, we obviously do. But these are physiological reactions to stimuli, not a soul. THESE have been researched and observed. Now, if you go and say, well, that's just it! THAT is the soul, but you can't measure something like taht because it's "different" well, you win I guess. And unicorns are also amazing too!
You view the soul as something mystical and magical and cannot get that idea out of your head whereas i believe the soul is just another form of energy,
Describe this energy. Show it to me. We can detect dark energy in the cosmos, or at least its effects. We have scientific, quantifiable data on dark energy or matter, yet you claim to have discovered "soul energy"
Now science tells us that atomic particles are made of sub-atomic particles, those particles are probably made of something else and so on and so on until you reach the original base of all matter which is most likely the soul,
No, wrong again. Science has currently moved to the point where vibrating strings of energy are the lowest point that make up the matter/particles of all the universe's components. String Theory. But, you, the smartest person EVER, claim that these guys are wrong, and even if strings are at play, there is something smaller that is a soul that ties all of us together in some fanciful and delightful way. Even string theory gets railed because it's a theory that cannot be disproven because there is no way to experiment in a lab or elsewhere to test whether or not it may be true (although the Large Hadron Collider might make for some circumstantial evidence). But your theory is even more untestable. You jsut throw it out there. "the thing the makes up all the matter in the universe is the soul" Where the HELL did you pull that out of your arse from?
btw since i came up with a theory for you and it seems pretty sound i'd like you to combine your original ideas 1-4 into a single statement that doesn't contradict itself. If you can do that i'll admit you never contradicted yourself with your theory of significance.
You contradict yourself, mr. chemist. One of the first laws of physics, is......???? remember???? Okay< I'll give you the answer..energy cannot be created or destroyed. Yet, you say "I see the soul a internal life force that runs through all things in existence. The soul is recycled back into the universe dispersed and mixed so that it can form new souls and new life." So for you, it's first a) a life force..sounds pretty mystical to me. Then b) then a soul gets dispersed to form new souls. but if soul = energy like you later claim, how can energy create new energy????
You also start by saying "To much science can clutter the true meaning of something that is not meant to be understood...at least by the likes of the average human..." yet then try to convince all of us that you're NOT talking about mystical mumbo jumbo and ARE talking about science. so you're the one to determine what is meant to be understood? wow. so, if there is a god, it's probably you.
I ignored the first paragraph because like i said thats not debatable.
ToloseGT posted the study
Science proves that reality is subject to perspective. Even Einstein said time is relative. reality is perceptions which means what you see or experience may or may not actually be what is actually going on.
Unicorns would be pretty ghey
soul energy is currently unexplained energy science has dealt with unexplainable energies b4....it wasn't always called dark-matter before it was just an X variable...
String theories credibility can best be summed up by wiki
wikipedia wrote:For a scientific theory to be valid it must be verified empirically, i.e. through experiment or observation. Few avenues for such contact with experiment have been claimed.[1] With the construction of the Large Hadron Collider in CERN some scientists hope to produce relevant data, though it is widely believed that any theory of quantum gravity would require much higher energies to probe directly. Moreover, string theory as it is currently understood has a huge number of equally possible solutions.[2] Thus it has been claimed by some scientists that string theory may not be falsifiable and may have no predictive power.[3][4][5][6]
basically its not even a solid theory that the entire scientific community believes in. Its plausible but we have no way to Prove it...kinda like something else....oh wait a soul.
The universe didn't just happen. Or maybe it did. Either way even if you believe the big bang theory the energy that started the universe is still largely unexplained. Taking that into account since we do not know how soul energy or life force or whatever i want to call it operates its very plausible to assume that it does not follow all the rules/theories or conventional science. More often than things ppl perceive as mystical often have a scientific base but there are occasions where science fails to explain them.
I think that answers everything. You still haven't summed up your original 4 theories for me you seem to be ignoring that request while expecting me to follow through with yours. Your not an idiot i'll give you that but you have alot to learn and alot more to experience about the world around you outside of a physics book because science hasn't explained everything yet in fact its not even close...
signatures by Hostage Co. <3 ~PoP is DEAD! My sTyLe is Supa-Flat!!~
XemnasXD wrote:I ignored the first paragraph because like i said thats not debatable.
ToloseGT posted the study
Science proves that reality is subject to perspective. Even Einstein said time is relative. reality is perceptions which means what you see or experience may or may not actually be what is actually going on.
Unicorns would be pretty ghey
soul energy is currently unexplained energy science has dealt with unexplainable energies b4....it wasn't always called dark-matter before it was just an X variable...
String theories credibility can best be summed up by wiki
wikipedia wrote:For a scientific theory to be valid it must be verified empirically, i.e. through experiment or observation. Few avenues for such contact with experiment have been claimed.[1] With the construction of the Large Hadron Collider in CERN some scientists hope to produce relevant data, though it is widely believed that any theory of quantum gravity would require much higher energies to probe directly. Moreover, string theory as it is currently understood has a huge number of equally possible solutions.[2] Thus it has been claimed by some scientists that string theory may not be falsifiable and may have no predictive power.[3][4][5][6]
basically its not even a solid theory that the entire scientific community believes in. Its plausible but we have no way to Prove it...kinda like something else....oh wait a soul.
The universe didn't just happen. Or maybe it did. Either way even if you believe the big bang theory the energy that started the universe is still largely unexplained. Taking that into account since we do not know how soul energy or life force or whatever i want to call it operates its very plausible to assume that it does not follow all the rules/theories or conventional science. More often than things ppl perceive as mystical often have a scientific base but there are occasions where science fails to explain them.
I think that answers everything. You still haven't summed up your original 4 theories for me you seem to be ignoring that request while expecting me to follow through with yours. Your not an idiot i'll give you that but you have alot to learn and alot more to experience about the world around you outside of a physics book because science hasn't explained everything yet in fact its not even close...
I think we both agree that unicorns would be extremely gay.
I still just can't have faith that somethings just "are" and science can't explain them. I think, if there were a soul, we'd know it. Or we'd be able to observe it. We can't. And that's what I mean by having faith in something. I guess we're both guilty of having faith. You have faith that a soul, or a life force exists. I have faith it does not. So, we're both arguing in circles challenging each other to prove it, when we can't, obviously.
As far as my "4 theories". I didn't list 4 theories. Nor did you. You claimed I made 4 theories, but couldn't specifiy what those 4 were. I said that life has no meaning, no purpose. By this I mean, and I think I've said this more than once, there is no reason why we are here. We are here because water was abundant on this planet and so was oxygen. and life evolved from smaller organisms into what we see on the planet today. Before the earth formed, there wasn't life here, and once its gone it'll be gone....but, there is no purpose to our human species. This whole idea of purpose or meaning implies destiny, which I don't believe in.
Now, as individuals, we can give it meaning. We can say, "hey, my life is going to be such and such..I'm going to be the best doctor ever" but for the species overall, and for perspective's sake, it doesn't matter if Joe Shmoe becomes a doctor. It doesn't matter to Alien X that the human race kills itself in a nuclear holocaust. They won't even know about it. etc etc etc. it's like, when I hear on tv or read in the newspaper that someone died in a car wreck. Everyone around me that reads taht same article goes, "OH my god that's so terrible" and they get so upset by it, like it really impacts theirlife. But it doesn't. I didn't know the guy killed in the wreck. He wasn't a part of my life. Why should I care if he died. Sure, it sucks for his family, but it doesn't suck for me or my family. and why should I worry about it? I wouldn't expect people I've never met to care if I died. That's pretty egotistical.
Anyways, OT a bit. We, as humans place significance on there because we determine what is significant. It's a biased position to begin with. I believe however, understanding that, we're really not as significant as we think we are. I, in fact, claim, that we're just another grain of sand. We matter to ourselves and to each other, but that's about it.
Reise wrote:The absence of evidence IS the evidence of absence.
Just because you think it exists doesn't necessarily mean it does. But I guess that's where they get the term "blind faith" isn't it?
that can go both ways since there is no solid evidence for either side...
@barotix don't call me a brickwall.
Anyone who blindly follows a path be it spiritual or scientific is a brick wall. Dingy seemed to be stuck that existence is meaningless and content that there was no other options. I took the evidence he used and showed him it it contradicted itself. By beliefs are not concrete they are theories that are subject to change and i don't see how taking a physics course will help especially since we are talking about the meta-physical and hardly anything in physics is concrete as i have already stated it is all theories....
you underestimate the laws which run nothingness? theoretical physics leaves room for a soul, god, and that chasm you spoke of earlier.
I like the idea of string theory actual. To think everything in the universe is simply vibrations, thats actual pretty whimsical, a universe made from music ...but like i mentioned earlier right now we have no way to test it and prove it however plausible it may be.
@Jack Meaning isn't only defined by the observer. If you traveled far back through time and accidentally stepped on stepped on a rat, nothing back then would care. Everything would go on nothing would change. But what if that rat was one of the ancestors of mankind, a crucial ancestor say the leader of the first group of apes that would venture out from the jungles to become man. I could go on with this but i think you get it. Meaning isn't always defined in the here and now, if you find meaning in the present thats good but things like that snowball. I don't know what the future holds for mankind it may be our destiny to be wiped out but if it is then perhaps whatever takes our place will play a crucial role in this part of the galaxy and that crucial part will effect the whole galaxy in some way that can't be so easily seen and so on and so on. The meaning we assign to our life may not be the same meaning that others do. I don't think Hitler ever wanted the Jews to have there own country but because of WWII they have Israel, different meanings have been found in WWII so it had a purpose and just because we do not know what mankind will become or do if anything doesn't mean that millennia from now it might not have meaning to something/someone else....
EDIT: the idea of omnipotent beings creating and controlling everything is stupid. All the gods of man have human like qualities which means they are subject to fear anger hatred etc and i don't think something like that could possibly have created everything that exist....if there was a God it would probably like the version of God Futurama has.
signatures by Hostage Co. <3 ~PoP is DEAD! My sTyLe is Supa-Flat!!~
EDIT: the idea of omnipotent beings creating and controlling everything is stupid. All the gods of man have human like qualities which means they are subject to fear anger hatred etc and i don't think something like that could possibly have created everything that exist...
I'll take you up on that - point me to something that states God in the Christian "universe" or whatever has any negative human-like qualities. Free will is what makes us experience fear, anger, hatred, etc.
EDIT: the idea of omnipotent beings creating and controlling everything is stupid. All the gods of man have human like qualities which means they are subject to fear anger hatred etc and i don't think something like that could possibly have created everything that exist...
I'll take you up on that - point me to something that states God in the Christian "universe" or whatever has any negative human-like qualities. Free will is what makes us experience fear, anger, hatred, etc.
He flooded the world, He had a city burned to the ground and anyone who didn't like it was turned to salt, He threw Adam and Eve out the garden, Gave cain his mark, the list really goes on....im pretty sure the scripture describes the Wrath of God on more than one occasion...
signatures by Hostage Co. <3 ~PoP is DEAD! My sTyLe is Supa-Flat!!~
EDIT: the idea of omnipotent beings creating and controlling everything is stupid. All the gods of man have human like qualities which means they are subject to fear anger hatred etc and i don't think something like that could possibly have created everything that exist...
I'll take you up on that - point me to something that states God in the Christian "universe" or whatever has any negative human-like qualities. Free will is what makes us experience fear, anger, hatred, etc.
He flooded the world, He had a city burned to the ground and anyone who didn't like it was turned to salt, He threw Adam and Eve out the garden, Gave cain his mark, the list really goes on....im pretty sure the scripture describes the Wrath of God on more than one occasion...
Most of the "mean" God is in the Old Testament. The New Testament see a nicer version. But, I just wish there were unicorns
EDIT: the idea of omnipotent beings creating and controlling everything is stupid. All the gods of man have human like qualities which means they are subject to fear anger hatred etc and i don't think something like that could possibly have created everything that exist...
I'll take you up on that - point me to something that states God in the Christian "universe" or whatever has any negative human-like qualities. Free will is what makes us experience fear, anger, hatred, etc.
He flooded the world,
Because they sinned. He did save those who were righteous.
He had a city burned to the ground and anyone who didn't like it was turned to salt
Because they sinned.
He threw Adam and Eve out the garden, Gave cain his mark, the list really goes on....im pretty sure the scripture describes the Wrath of God on more than one occasion...
Yes. Because they sinned. He told them what he'd do, and they ignored him, treated him like crap. He set the rules, they broke them. End of story.
The only difference between the New Testament God and the old testament God is that Jesus was sent down to suffer for us - a middleman to take the blame, if you will - plus a new covenant in Jesus' name.
God still states if you don't believe in Him, you're not getting into heaven. That's still pretty harsh.
It's hard for God to be "human-like" though, considering we were created in His image.
You sound relatively knowledgable about this stuff, what turned you away from it?
lol
...but like i mentioned earlier right now we have no way to test it and prove it however plausible it may be.
