Woot

[Draquish]

I lol'd @ Reise's posts in this thread.


Which reminds me: I want to eat a banana.

[ThiefzV2]

if there's no bailout, then it will be a great depression. basic fundamental of economics

I thought one of the fundamental concepts of economics is that it will regulate and repair itself over time; interference with the economy only leads to artificial and short-run effects?

it will of course autorepair itself, but it's a matter of when? 30 years of depression and then World War III to bring us out of a depression. besides the United States has unlimited money if they run out they can always tax and borrow more from China. the us gov can never be bankrupt

exactly, saying it let fix itself is a rather ignorant comment when the truth of the matter is that it should all be regulated til some extent so that stupid people dont do stupid stuff

+4854857575

finally someone very intelligent

[XemnasXD]

poor poor dumb mouths is Julius Caesar reference when brutus was addressing the mob..

i guess it was over your head, now that i know your at pan raiders lvl i might have to start talking down to you

[heroo]

Can't wait for tomorrow.

There HAS to be a plan, this one or another.

If there's no plan, we're farked

[Barotix]

exactly, saying it let fix itself is a rather ignorant comment

Over Regulation prevents industries from growing and expanding efficiently because it diverts capital away from good sound areas into failing areas.

In 1921 it took less than one year for the market to recover from a depression. The 1929 depression lasted for over a decade due to government interfering where it doesn't belong. Federal reserves send false flags to entrepreneurs, with artificially low interest rates, causing them to take part in investments that, under a free market, would normally be avoided. This leads to the boom and bust cycle that I'm sure you're familiar with. Market regulation promotes poverty, unemployment, and starvation.

@Xemnas, English isn't my specialty. Always avoided Shakespeare.

If there's no plan, we're farked

We're better off without a "plan."

Lehman fell: No Chaos.
Meryl Lynch fell: No Chaos.
WaMu: No Chaos.
Wachovia: We're still standing.

The good assets of bad banks will be bought out by financially sound banks. The bad assets will be thrown out. This is good for the market. Bailouts gives stupid people more money to do more stupid things to hurt the economy. Oversimplification but it gets the point across.

[Pan_Raider(`_´)]

poor poor dumb mouths is Julius Caesar reference when brutus was addressing the mob..

i guess it was over your head, now that i know your at pan raiders lvl i might have to start talking down to you

wut?

either way,
dumb mouth or not i think it it is appropriate to for the whole world to scream in dismay.

May it be seen by the eyes of Thiefz, Xemnas, Barotix or the almighty Dom:

there is a grave problem and someone should fix it.
It just depends on how we do it,
procarstination is never the right thing when it comes down to money

[heroo]

If there's no plan, we're farked

We're better off without a "plan."

Lehman fell: No Chaos.
Meryl Lynch fell: No Chaos.
WaMu: No Chaos.
Wachovia: We're still standing.

The good assets of bad banks will be bought out by financially sound banks. The bad assets will be thrown out. This is good for the market. Bailouts gives stupid people more money to do more stupid things to hurt the economy. Oversimplification but it gets the point across.

it's not about the banks only anymore.

This whole thing is coming to the consumers, the people themselfes. If nothing dramatically will be done, the whole economy will collapse. I know this sounds like armageddonday-talk, but I am really afraid of the consequences of this whole thing.

Just an example: Two weeks ago the Secretary of Treasury of The Netherlands said that no Dutch bank or whatsoever is in trouble. Now, two weeks later, one of Holland's/Belgium's biggest banks, Fortis Bank, is being nationalised.

I just want to make clear that this thing is expanding in an unbelieveble high speed, and it is my view that we need to cut this washintong bullshit/drama, and start taking some action.

Because the old way, of the market ''healing'' itself, WILL NOT work this time I am afraid.

[Barotix]

Because the old way, of the market ''healing'' itself, WILL NOT work this time I am afraid.

The "old way" (the proper way) was abandoned in 1929. Most (read; all) governments follow Keynesian economist. Keynesian economics doesn't have a solution for stagflation. The central banks caused this.

[dom]

I feel that the market is like a fish tank. To a certain extent, the market can take care of itself. However, in this case, it cannot. Throwing at money won't solve the problem, we need to take the aquarium apart, change the filters, and make sure that it has a strong foundation to start with.

The World needs economic reform. Not a big band-aid.

If all else fails, I wouldn't mind returning to feudalism; of course, seeing that you would all be my subjects.

[heroo]

BTW, I am interested in who you guys think are the culprits of this whole mess?

I myself, hold the central banks accountable for this mess. And for some part the supervision, whos job it is to prevent such things from happing.

[dom]

BTW, I am interested in who you guys think are the culprits of this whole mess?

I myself, hold the central banks accountable for this mess. And for some part the supervision, whos job it is to prevent such things from happing.

Poor foundation laid post-depression. And George Bush (for novelty).

[Barotix]

Reform:
1]Abolish all central banks.
2]Go back to a gold standard to put a limit on government spending.
3]Get rid of useless government programs.
4]America needs to stop living above it's means.
5]WTB High Tariffs.
6]No more imperialism.

@Heroo, I'm pretty sure in another thread I said other countries would feel this. Recession first, then reform.

Poor foundation laid post-depression.

So much win in this thread. In all the other ones I always feel like a lone voice in the wilderness.

[dom]

So much win in this thread. In all the other ones I always feel like a lone voice in the wilderness.

That's because I decided to stop posting for a while. Reading replies like the ones from Thiefz really shakes up your confidence in the community's intelligence. Takes a while to psychologically regroup.

[heroo]

Poor foundation laid post-depression.

care to elaborate?

My english is like a two year old when it comes to you and Barotix lol

[dom]

Poor foundation laid post-depression.

care to elaborate?

My english is like a two year old when it comes to you and Barotix lol

The asshole that setup the jenga tower didn't take the time to make sure the base lined up. So, a couple turns into the game, the shit fell down.

[Love]

I feel that the market is like a fish tank. To a certain extent, the market can take care of itself. However, in this case, it cannot. Throwing at money won't solve the problem, we need to take the aquarium apart, change the filters, and make sure that it has a strong foundation to start with.

The World needs economic reform. Not a big band-aid.

If all else fails, I wouldn't mind returning to feudalism; of course, seeing that you would all be my subjects.

+1

the bailout is not a solution by any means

[heroo]

I feel that the market is like a fish tank. To a certain extent, the market can take care of itself. However, in this case, it cannot. Throwing at money won't solve the problem, we need to take the aquarium apart, change the filters, and make sure that it has a strong foundation to start with.

The World needs economic reform. Not a big band-aid.

If all else fails, I wouldn't mind returning to feudalism; of course, seeing that you would all be my subjects.

+1

the bailout is not a solution by any means

actually it is. it's a short term solution. it was never meant to solve this problem, it was meant to calm down the markets until we have a proper solution to this all.

[dom]

actually it is. it's a short term solution. it was never meant to solve this problem, it was meant to calm down the markets until we have a proper solution to this all.

700,000,000,000 dollars is kind of expensive for a time-out. Not to mention that no one knows if it will work, if it might amplify problems in the long-run, and if the economy can handle that kind of influx at once. I rather take 1/1000th of that amount and pay someone who's willing to make time in his schedule to face what could possibly be the world's worst economic disaster.

[heroo]

actually it is. it's a short term solution. it was never meant to solve this problem, it was meant to calm down the markets until we have a proper solution to this all.

700,000,000,000 dollars is kind of expensive for a time-out. Not to mention that no one knows if it will work, if it might amplify problems in the long-run, and if the economy can handle that kind of influx at once.

I myself don't think they really will pump in 700 billion into the markets, as they stated: they will first begin with 250 billion and IF necessary, more will follow.

I think the number 700 billion calms investors and companies/banks, which exactly is the meaning of this plan.

because I FULLY agree with you that money only will not solve these problems, but a dramatic reorganisation is needed.

[Barotix]

I feel that the market is like a fish tank. To a certain extent, the market can take care of itself. However, in this case, it cannot. Throwing at money won't solve the problem, we need to take the aquarium apart, change the filters, and make sure that it has a strong foundation to start with.

The World needs economic reform. Not a big band-aid.

If all else fails, I wouldn't mind returning to feudalism; of course, seeing that you would all be my subjects.

+1

the bailout is not a solution by any means

First you "+1" thiefz; now you "+1" dom. They're not typing the same thing.
Coincidentally the chapter I'm on in the audiobook I've been listening to addresses self-regulating markets vs outright socialism.
http://mises.org/multimedia/mp3/audiobo ... rty/13.mp3

Letting the market regulate itself then setting up economic reforms to allow more freedom on the market leads to prosperity. Government is big, useless, and incompetent.

@Heroo, giving money to stupid people won't stop them from doing stupid things. We need free market reforms.
@Americans: Call/email your senators.

[Love]

actually it is. it's a short term solution. it was never meant to solve this problem, it was meant to calm down the markets until we have a proper solution to this all.

700,000,000,000 dollars is kind of expensive for a time-out. Not to mention that no one knows if it will work, if it might amplify problems in the long-run, and if the economy can handle that kind of influx at once.

I myself don't think they really will pump in 700 billion into the markets, as they stated: they will first begin with 250 billion and IF necessary, more will follow.

I think the number 700 billion calms investors and companies/banks, which exactly is the meaning of this plan.

because I FULLY agree with you that money only will not solve these problems, but a dramatic reorganisation is needed.

i think you, Dom and Bortix are sorta pushing the comments a bit to the extreme "Over Regulation", "time-out", "us gov cant go bankrupt" i think it will help the economy but the government needs to be put under pressure to make this work the way it should and come up with real solutions to the real problems in our economy and one of the main ones is energy ( which i think is what Obama it trying to push to become its legacy with the 10 year energy independence plan ) not that is necessarily related but is one of the things i think the country should be pushing for

[dom]

@Heroo, giving money to stupid people won't stop them from doing stupid things. We need free market reforms.
@Americans: Call/email your senators.

Canadians?

[heroo]

True, but we have no choice, and we are as dumb as they are, because we allowed them to do these stupid things.

The economy can not function without the trade of credit. Since that trade of credit almost freezed 100%, we have to give them this money. As stupid as they are, we need them.

anyways, it's already 1:30 AM out here, it has been a rough day on the markets to day, time to leave it behind and go to sleep, tomorrow a new day with new opportunities.

Will return to this thread tomorrow, for now, bye bye

[Blindfire]

@Heroo, giving money to stupid people won't stop them from doing stupid things. We need free market reforms.
@Americans: Call/email your senators.

Canadians?

Hope their economy gets straightened out so that ours stops going down the shitter.

[Barotix]

@Heroo, giving money to stupid people won't stop them from doing stupid things. We need free market reforms.
@Americans: Call/email your senators.

Canadians?

I guess you can call/email the Alaskan senators.

True, but we have no choice, and we are as dumb as they are, because we allowed them to do these stupid things.

We didn't "allow them."

Federal reserves send false flags to entrepreneurs, with artificially low interest rates, causing them to take part in investments that, under a free market, would normally be avoided. This leads to the boom and bust cycle that I'm sure you're familiar with. Market regulation promotes poverty, unemployment, and starvation.

Anyone care to listen to chapter 13 of my audio book?

[dom]

Anyone care to listen to chapter 13 of my audio book?

Books are for women.

[XemnasXD]

Lehman fell: No Chaos.
Meryl Lynch fell: No Chaos.
WaMu: No Chaos.
Wachovia: We're still standing.

Firstly NONE of those companies really fell. They all got absorbed into other, larger, banks with the help of who, i can't hear you, oh thats right the Federal Gov't. Also i like how you cleverly omitted AIG from the list. None of those banks declared bankruptcy and let the whole company just drop off the earth like hundreds of smaller banks are doing. If any one of those companies including AIG had truly failed and no one took over their assets there would be billions of dollars unaccounted for in the world economy which would probably cause a huge (negative) change in the market.

The invisible hand would have seen upwards of 600 billion dollars turned into nothing....that doesn't solve financial crisis.

[Love]

I feel that the market is like a fish tank. To a certain extent, the market can take care of itself. However, in this case, it cannot. Throwing at money won't solve the problem, we need to take the aquarium apart, change the filters, and make sure that it has a strong foundation to start with.

The World needs economic reform. Not a big band-aid.

If all else fails, I wouldn't mind returning to feudalism; of course, seeing that you would all be my subjects.

+1

the bailout is not a solution by any means

First you "+1" thiefz; now you "+1" dom. They're not typing the same thing.
Coincidentally the chapter I'm on in the audiobook I've been listening to addresses self-regulating markets vs outright socialism.
http://mises.org/multimedia/mp3/audiobo ... rty/13.mp3

Letting the market regulate itself then setting up economic reforms to allow more freedom on the market leads to prosperity. Government is big, useless, and incompetent.

@Heroo, giving money to stupid people won't stop them from doing stupid things. We need free market reforms.
@Americans: Call/email your senators.

the idea is to have smart people slap stupid people in the face every time they do something stupid and LOL GOV IS USELESS, is not the way to go you are just commenting on a rather noneffective government, a good government is to be welcomed but it doesnt seem to exist at this point but hopefully there will be one perfect enough in our service in the near future and you are too liberal .....saying let the market fix itself is not taking responsibility and then when something irreversible happens you go "oh shit" and the magical words "we should have done something about it" start to flow but by that time you are fcked and lost the game of taking chances

"dont take chances take responsibility"

quote me on that

[Barotix]

I'm pretty sure I stated, here, that their good assets were bought out by economically sound banks. I'm pretty sure I stated, here, that is what occurs on the free market. I think I'll go fetch that statement.

thats right the Federal Gov't.

That's it's "job", making sure that trade on the free market goes smoothly. Their job isn't preventing competition. Free market capitalism doesn't propose that they drop off the face of the Earth.

AIG is worthless, 80% was bought by the gov't. Might as well have been 100%.

The invisible hand would have seen upwards of 600 billion dollars turned into nothing....that doesn't solve financial crisis.

...You. don't. understand. Austrian/Libertarian/Free. market. Economics.

saying let the market fix itself is not taking responsibility and then when something irreversible happens you go "oh shit" and the magical words "we should have done something about it" start to flow but by that time you are fcked and lost the game of taking chances

Letting the market take care of itself is not a game of chance. Last time I checked liberals were socialist. I'm an Anarcho-Capitalist.

Learn. more. about. the. free. market. you. obviously. lack. knowledge. of. the. workings. of. Austrian/Libertarian/Free. market. economics.

Government's job is simple: Protect property rights, play the role of arbitrator. A role that could be played better by a worker on the free market.

Federal reserves send false flags to entrepreneurs, with artificially low interest rates, causing them to take part in investments that, under a free market, would normally be avoided. This leads to the boom and bust cycle that I'm sure you're familiar with. Market regulation promotes poverty, unemployment, and starvation.

I posted in my first post: If you're unfamiliar with Austrian economics or favor Keynes' broken theory educate yourself here. Now go on, don't go; "Oh, I know what the free market is." Because you clearly don't.

[non ego man]

Anyone care to listen to chapter 13 of my audio book?

Books are for women.

Listening now.

And it's not a book. It's an audiobook. Read by a guy. Totally anti-chick.

Mises is great. Didn't know they had these available.