OH NOES!

[Tasdik]

Good ole' Ben Franklin once said "We need a revolution every 200 years, because all governments become stale and corrupt after 200 years."

So true.

[TheDrop]

Erm so apparently the NSA has given some of the surveillance information to the DEA and that they have been covering it up in drug enforcement cases..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the ... ing-it-up/
So they aren't just using the info for terrorism, but also for domestic crimes (who would've thought..)

This shit just hit home, literally.

[Aventus]

And how will that day come if you don't care? lol

How will it come if you do care but choose to sit and watch instead of doing something. We are doing the same thing only difference is you allow things like this to anger you and I dont.

[TheDrop]

^Talking about it spreads the word

Is anyone honestly surprised by this?

I hate this attitude (generally, not strictly you). Yes a lot of people suspected that wiretapping since 2006, but if someone said that the US government is running a bigass network that keeps track of every phone record and internet surfing, and has used it for domestic crimes as well as "terrorism", a year ago, they would have been labeled as a tinfoil/fringe conspiracy theorist.
Now its a known fact and we have actual evidence of this, its time to have an actual about this than going all Captain Obvious on people

Good ole' Ben Franklin once said "We need a revolution every 200 years, because all governments become stale and corrupt after 200 years."

So true.

Thank god those Ar-15s are still legal

[Aventus]

^Talking about it spreads the word

Is anyone honestly surprised by this?

I hate this attitude (generally, not strictly you). Yes a lot of people suspected that wiretapping since 2006, but if someone said that the US government is running a bigass network that keeps track of every phone record and internet surfing, and has used it for domestic crimes as well as "terrorism", a year ago, they would have been labeled as a tinfoil/fringe conspiracy theorist.
Now its a known fact and we have actual evidence of this, its time to have an actual about this than going all Captain Obvious on people

Good ole' Ben Franklin once said "We need a revolution every 200 years, because all governments become stale and corrupt after 200 years."

So true.

Thank god those Ar-15s are still legal

To who? The other people sitting on there ass voting on online polls. Lets be honest here, as americans we do not have it that hard and we are not willing to risk our peaceful daily lives to do something as small as a rally/protest that could possibly change the way our daily lives go. The risk is not worth it to us.

Also who didnt expect this, not because the gov't are over reaching douches but because its the android platform. My friend could hack your android. It's not like its the most secure system in the world.

[DarkJackal]

Well my friend can hack your mom.



I think Xbox One could be an example, all the crap they tried to do, but when enough people were against it they changed, even though plenty just didn't care or thought they couldn't do anything about it. Obviously we don't have the leverage of not buying something if we don't like it, but even making people aware is better then not caring, join the group against it, don't just be a sheep. Just because there are a few unsuccessful attempts against it or w/e doesn't mean we should not care.

[TheDrop]

Yes I agree that Americans do really have it pretty good in terms of lie quality, but that does not mean you ignore every incident by comparing yourself favorably to 3rd world countries.
Like with every incident of police brutality, people try to fix the problem rather than saying "oh atleast its not as bad as it is in India".
Same with privacy, you don't go around saying its OK for the US government to wiretap their citizens because the Russians had it way worse during the Soviet Union.

I'm not sure what you are talking about the Android thing.

Also the polls are usually conducted through both cellphones and land lines, not just internet.

[.curve]

Erm so apparently the NSA has given some of the surveillance information to the DEA and that they have been covering it up in drug enforcement cases..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the ... ing-it-up/
So they aren't just using the info for terrorism, but also for domestic crimes (who would've thought..)

This shit just hit home, literally.

Just hit home? Are you a drug dealer pushing out pounds of drugs and discussing such transactions openly?

Didn't think so. For those of us who like to toke up from time to time, I think we're fine.

@DarkJackal
What Aventus is saying though is why join the group against it when all the group is doing is sitting there being keyboard warriors complaining about it? If a group wants to rise up and actually do something worthwhile, count me in. I'm all for revolution when something is actually attempting to be done.

I'm not going to spread information to make people aware just to sit there and twiddle my thumbs.

I love when all you faux-activists call people sheep. There's nothing more sheepish than referring to someone who isn't on your side as being a sheep.

Edit:
You seemed to conveniently ignore a paragraph in that article:

The report makes no explicit connection between the DEA and the earlier NSA bulk phone surveillance uncovered by former Booz Allen Hamilton contractor Edward Snowden. In other words, we don’t know for sure if the DEA’s Special Operations Division is getting its tips from the same database that’s been the subject of multiple congressional hearings in recent months. We just know that a special outfit within DEA sometimes gets tips from the NSA.

[TheDrop]

This shit just hit home, literally.

Just hit home? Are you a drug dealer pushing out pounds of drugs and discussing such transactions openly?

Didn't think so. For those of us who like to toke up from time to time, I think we're fine.[/quote]
There's a reason I put the literally in there. Up till now it was said that the NSA surveillance was only for terrorist activities, now it seems it have been used for domestic crimes as well. Domestic = home, bruh.

Edit:
You seemed to conveniently ignore a paragraph in that article:

The report makes no explicit connection between the DEA and the earlier NSA bulk phone surveillance uncovered by former Booz Allen Hamilton contractor Edward Snowden. In other words, we don’t know for sure if the DEA’s Special Operations Division is getting its tips from the same database that’s been the subject of multiple congressional hearings in recent months. We just know that a special outfit within DEA sometimes gets tips from the NSA.

And you yourself ignore the last line in the very paragraph you just quoted. They aren't sure that the NSA gives tips to the DEA from the PRISM, Keyscore etc, but that the NSA has given and still gives tips to the DEA.

[Fiction]

I'm just gonna sit back and let TheDrop handle this one, he's seems to be on the right track.

-Sidenote-To attack DJ for having some fight in him... Every revolution started somewhere... People didn't just all wake up on the same day and decide enough was enough. Talking about it online, or even with your friends and co-workers(if they're into it) gets the wheels turning. Helps you understand things, and you get to hear other people's views on the situation. If the other person doesn't care, said person doesn't have to partake in the conversation. Yet, we can still discuss the ignorant bliss, of not caring about such an important issue.

[[Orphen]]

lol The "who cares, it doesn't effect me." culture, is a special kind of ignorant bliss. Belittle all the people that complain about the government overreaching their boundaries... But never anyone left to fight the good fight when they start coming after things that you care about.(say maybe the internet?)

Either way, as citizens of this country it used to be our duty to make sure stuff like this didn't go on. We've been taught differently these days, we have become indolent. As long as we've got our favorite TV shows, movies, facebook, etc. We're content with having our privacy invaded, and our rights stripped away.

http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2012/mar/20/age-of-ignorance/

I'm still very confused why we so nonchalantly give up the rights that our Founding Fathers gave up so much for, all in the name of our own "personal safety." People are so happy to give up their personal responsibilities and forget that by the same token they are giving up their personal freedoms.

[.curve]

There's a reason I put the literally in there. Up till now it was said that the NSA surveillance was only for terrorist activities, now it seems it have been used for domestic crimes as well. Domestic = home, bruh.

You're trying to tell me that the government supposedly hasn't been surveying major drug dealers for some time now? I'm pretty sure that any high profile criminal has had some sort of surveillance on them. But now that someone's pointed it out it's time to take it to heart?

The age of drug dealers is out, at least for weed. If you're still dealing high amounts you sort of deserve to get caught if you aren't taking the chance to go legitimate.

Edit:
You seemed to conveniently ignore a paragraph in that article:

The report makes no explicit connection between the DEA and the earlier NSA bulk phone surveillance uncovered by former Booz Allen Hamilton contractor Edward Snowden. In other words, we don’t know for sure if the DEA’s Special Operations Division is getting its tips from the same database that’s been the subject of multiple congressional hearings in recent months. We just know that a special outfit within DEA sometimes gets tips from the NSA.

And you yourself ignore the last line in the very paragraph you just quoted. They aren't sure that the NSA gives tips to the DEA from the PRISM, Keyscore etc, but that the NSA has given and still gives tips to the DEA.

The report makes no explicit connection between the DEA and the earlier NSA bulk phone surveillance uncovered by former Booz Allen Hamilton contractor Edward Snowden.

[Blindfire]

The age of drug dealers is out, at least for weed. If you're still dealing high amounts you sort of deserve to get caught if you aren't taking the chance to go legitimate.

Unless, y'know, you're not in a state/country that allows you to open up a dispensary and sell cannabis legitimately.

[Aventus]

I'm just gonna sit back and let TheDrop handle this one, he's seems to be on the right track.

-Sidenote-To attack DJ for having some fight in him... Every revolution started somewhere... People didn't just all wake up on the same day and decide enough was enough. Talking about it online, or even with your friends and co-workers(if they're into it) gets the wheels turning. Helps you understand things, and you get to hear other people's views on the situation. If the other person doesn't care, said person doesn't have to partake in the conversation. Yet, we can still discuss the ignorant bliss, of not caring about such an important issue.

There wont be a revolution set about by the people of this nation. There simply wont. We cant come together to do simple shit so there is no way we could put our differences aside long enough to revolt and set up a new functioning government. Until we as a people can decide to work together on something instead of fighting eachother over little shit like abortion we will be stuck in the same place and continue to be guests in our own home. So there is no point in worrying about things like the NSA and hacked phones until that day comes.

[Fiction]

At least you understand why the government does what it does. Make us bicker and fight with eachother, so we don't unite and put an end to the true oppressors and bigots.

[Aventus]

At least you understand why the government does what it does. Make us bicker and fight with eachother, so we don't unite and put an end to the true oppressors and bigots.

I'm not blind to whats going on, I just don't see a change in whats going on anytime in the near future. The only way I see us having a huge country wide revolt is if a president decides hes going to stay in office for longer than 2 terms but no president is stupid enough to do that because no matter who is in office the top 1% is going to get payed and get their great benefits while we get shit on more and more.

[TheDrop]

You're trying to tell me that the government supposedly hasn't been surveying major drug dealers for some time now? I'm pretty sure that any high profile criminal has had some sort of surveillance on them. But now that someone's pointed it out it's time to take it to heart?

The age of drug dealers is out, at least for weed. If you're still dealing high amounts you sort of deserve to get caught if you aren't taking the chance to go legitimate.

The report makes no explicit connection between the DEA and the earlier NSA bulk phone surveillance uncovered by former Booz Allen Hamilton contractor Edward Snowden.

Erm you are kind of going in circles now.
The reason it matters if the PRISM info (mass surveillance) was said to be only used for terrorism, but now it may have been also used for domestic crimes as well (i.e. drug trafficking).
The whole deal used to justify this mass surveillance system was "because terrorists", and was said to only be used for terrorist threats (before, they said the mass surveillance was only for foreigners lul).

We just know that a special outfit within DEA sometimes gets tips from the NSA.

They aren't sure yet that the tips are from the PRISM program, what they are sure of is that the DEA receives tips from the NSA and has covered up the trails by making up different stories that supposedly led to the conviction.

"PARALLEL CONSTRUCTION"

After an arrest was made, agents then pretended that their investigation began with the traffic stop, not with the SOD tip, the former agent said. The training document reviewed by Reuters refers to this process as "parallel construction."

http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/08/0 ... 7E20130805

[TheDrop]

Ima look like a total asshole if something does happen, but how convenient is it that just as public opinion shifts to Snowden, theres somehow a global threat to US embassies, and we have representatives going on CNN saying how big of a deal and how we all should be shitting bricks (rather than like, calling for calm?).

Obama went on Leno yesterday to talk about the embassy shutdowns FFS.

This one representative on CNN detailed each point on how the CIA/NSA/w.e. intercepted info from a terrorist leader who said in a mail that "he wanted something big to go down".

[.curve]

Erm you are kind of going in circles now.
The reason it matters if the PRISM info (mass surveillance) was said to be only used for terrorism, but now it may have been also used for domestic crimes as well (i.e. drug trafficking).
The whole deal used to justify this mass surveillance system was "because terrorists", and was said to only be used for terrorist threats (before, they said the mass surveillance was only for foreigners lul).

Then I ask again, are you a drug dealer who needs to be worried about the NSA overhearing your huge drug deal conversations?

Didn't think so. NSA giving the DEA information in no way effects me.

[omier]

As said already, this isn't about how much something like this effects anyone.

[.curve]

As said already, this isn't about how much something like this effects anyone.

Oh yeah, it's about inciting nationwide change through angry posts on message boards. I forgot, my bad.

[omier]

No.

[*BlackFox]

this isn't about how much something like this effects anyone.

So... It wouldn't directly affect "criminals" either?

[omier]

this isn't about how much something like this effects anyone.

So... It wouldn't directly affect "criminals" either?

That's not what I was talking about.

[TheDrop]

Then I ask again, are you a drug dealer who needs to be worried about the NSA overhearing your huge drug deal conversations?

Didn't think so. NSA giving the DEA information in no way effects me.

But thats the same "if you have nothing to hide you shouldn't be scared" argument that Dick Cheney always used.

I dont get it, if we aren't supposed to discuss shit like this on a discussion board, then what are we supposed to discuss

[.curve]

Then I ask again, are you a drug dealer who needs to be worried about the NSA overhearing your huge drug deal conversations?

Didn't think so. NSA giving the DEA information in no way effects me.

But thats the same "if you have nothing to hide you shouldn't be scared" argument that Dick Cheney always used.

I dont get it, if we aren't supposed to discuss shit like this on a discussion board, then what are we supposed to discuss

I see it more as "If I have nothing to hide I shouldn't care."

I thought we were discussing this? Our argument is that if you're going to complain about it, what good does just discussing it on a forum dedicated to some random MMO do? Nothing.

[Fiction]

lol We're discussing for the sake of discussion. That's why we keep coming back to bug each other.

The case I think Sanktum and TheDrop were trying to make with the NSA and DEA working together was that they've already deviated from their original plan. Why wouldn't they use the information for other stuff as well...

As someone that opposes this bullshit war on drugs, I think it's just another step in the wrong direction. But as long as they can sale you on the fact they're bringing down 'bad people' then you'll say, "I don't care, it doesn't effect me". Till the day comes when you're defined as a 'bad person' for doing something they've deemed illegal...

[.curve]

lol We're discussing for the sake of discussion. That's why we keep coming back to bug each other.

The case I think Sanktum and TheDrop were trying to make with the NSA and DEA working together was that they've already deviated from their original plan. Why wouldn't they use the information for other stuff as well...

As someone that opposes this bullshit war on drugs, I think it's just another step in the wrong direction. But as long as they can sale you on the fact they're bringing down 'bad people' then you'll say, "I don't care, it doesn't effect me". Till the day comes when you're defined as a 'bad person' for doing something they've deemed illegal...

I mean I smoke weed as much as any other person. I have a medical card and visit my local dispensary daily. It's still illegal on a federal level.

My thought process is why would they waste the resources on someone spending $15 a night just to get high. It's not that I'm sold on them only getting 'bad people,' it's that I feel taking down the random dude from California who likes to toke up daily would be pointless. Combined with more and more states legalizing or lifting some of the restrictions on marijuana, it just seems like something to not worry about.

Now if I were going to the dispensary and buying ounces at a time to turn around and sell, maybe I could understand and be a little hesitant.

Also thank you for clearing up the case they were trying to make, I suppose I wasn't grasping that side of it. My thoughts and feelings pertaining to the DEA/NSA stuff still stands.

[*BlackFox]

But as long as they can sale you on the fact they're bringing down 'bad people' then you'll say, "I don't care, it doesn't effect me". Till the day comes when you're defined as a 'bad person' for doing something they've deemed illegal...

+1 Well, It would even affect your kids.. in the long run. Wouldn't it?

[non ego man]

Till the day comes when you're defined as a 'bad person' for doing something they've deemed illegal...

We're way past "until the day comes" and "doing something illegal"

No matter what political party you belong to, the fact that the IRS targeted right-leaning individuals and groups for harrasment should scare the crap out of you. And if you find yourself saying "I'm not a Republican so what do I care" then you're a fool.