Religion

[EvGa]

You say that religious people believe in stuff they don't see. Yet you believe in evolution, which has also not been proven perfectly. It's still a "theory". There are many people who still don't believe in evolution. People had been lied for what, 30 years?, thanks to that fake skull in Russia just to get people to believe in evelotuon and not believe in God.

What the..I don't even..

Evolution is fact just as much as the gravitational theory, atomic theory, germ theory of disease, etc. A scientific theory is not the definition of theory used in general discussion.

Scientific Theory (Also, empirical theory) - comprises a collection of concepts, including abstractions of observable phenomena expressed as quantifiable properties, together with rules (called scientific laws) that express relationships between observations of such concepts. A scientific theory is constructed to conform to available empirical data about such observations, and is put forth as a principle or body of principles for explaining a class of phenomena.

A scientific theory can be considered a deductive theory, in that its content could be expressed in some formal system of logic in which its elementary rules are taken as axioms. In a deductive theory, any sentence which is a logical consequence of one or more of the axioms is also a sentence of that theory. (wiki, best definition/explanation I could find in 1min)

Notice the empirical data part, observations, logic, deduction, etc... Evolution is not "just a theory." Also, science isn't "out to get" religion. We use science to merely explain the natural world..if that happens to infringe on your beliefs..what does that say about them? Think about it.

@Heo, atheism is lack of belief in deities. Zues, Yahweh, Baha'u'llah, Allah, Athena, Mithras, etc.. (There are thousands of proclaimed Gods and Goddesses).

[John_Doe]

If you really think about it were all athiest, well maybe not those who consider themselves Agonostic but all the others in essense are athiest, most of you don't believe in Zues, Thor, Ananasi, Odin, Shiva, Brahma, Vishnu, The numerious Pagen gods etc, I and many other's just go one god further.

[EvGa]

If you really think about it were all athiest, well maybe not those who consider themselves Agonostic but all the others in essense are athiest, most of you don't believe in Zues, Thor, Ananasi, Odin, Shiva, Brahma, Vishnu, The numerious Pagen gods etc, I and many other's just go one god further.

Edited my last post.

Good point. But wouldn't not going one God further make me a theist?

Yes, but you are, in essence, atheist towards all the other (thousands) of gods and goddesses. A true atheist just goes one step further.

In other words, why is YOUR god the right one and everyone else wrong?

[John_Doe]

in essense are athiest

maybe not by literal definition but in essense. and in response

The Qur'an on the right is according to the Warsh' transmission and is mainly used in North Africa

I'd fail to see how

one being from Egypt, one being from Pakistan, and me being from Turkey

would get a book publish mainly in North Africa? Or even heard of one unless they were doing research, do call one of your North African friends and ask them and if your "friend" in North Africa also says it doesn't exist do make a site denoucing that his work is all false.

Even if there is a book like, it is published by someone who wants to make Muslim people bad.

Really 2 phone calls/emails whatever you used and no further evidence and you've already concluded that?

[Tasdik]

Looks like I have some reading to do....

[John_Doe]

Look, that book might exist. Even if so, there are over 100,000 people who know the whole Qu'ran by heart.

You can surely go out and publish a different Qu'ran. When you do so, and when people do see the difference, they'll get the two different books together. They'll ask confirmation from the whole neightborhood and compare this "different" book. They'll also ask these memorizers to recite those versus and see if they match with this different book.

When every Qu'ran and every memorizer show that this different book is wrong, they'll just burn it, throw it to the cats or w/e. [

That is how the Qu'ran preserves it's content from changing for so many years.

That site is a lie. There's also a slight chance that this person picked up two Qu'rans and saw them different. What he should of done instead of creating a site saying Muslims do have two different versions of their Qu'ran is, researching to see which one is the original one and which one has minupilated.

Clearn enough? =s

Alright if you and 100,000 other memorizers want to play the one book is now the only book card I'll let you have this one.

researching to see which one is the original one and which one has minupilated.

If you truely believe that, your stance that all Quran are identical or unchanging is now rendered redundant.

[Barotix]

Why can't we just get along? Why does someone always have to be right? Why can't bob believe X, zoey believe Y, and Jake believe they're full of shit without some tension?

@John, about Dopple being Anti-Religion. Look. At. His. Sig. Read. His. Post. lol. It's like if I still ran around with my Obama avatar comparing him to the crazy german guy I would look anti-Obama.

[Tasdik]

Faith.

It's what all this comes down to. Some of you have faith that there isn't a God. While others, like myself, believe that there is a God. Neither of us can, or will, disprove the other one, or type up some amazing post that'll sway any of us to change our views on the whole "is there a God" subject. So why argue about whether there's a God or not?

[CeLL]

Faith.

It's what all this comes down to. Some of you have faith that there isn't a God. While others, like myself, believe that there is a God. Neither of us can, or will, disprove the other one, or type up some amazing post that'll sway any of us to change our views on the whole "is there a God" subject. So why argue about whether there's a God or not?

exactly.

faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things unseen. faith is by measure given by god himself. it is the evidence in the believer. the faith given to you, me, or ofy (as diverse as it may be) cant be evidence for anyone else (i.e. john_doe.) until one has been given faith they cant be expected to, nor are they expected to accept or believe anything, despite what extremist of any religion tells us.

[John_Doe]

Yea, im just gonna believe in something as incoherent, improbable, irrational as the concept of God because of a magic word. Right........or if taken literaly belief without evidence.

[CeLL]

Yea, im just gonna believe in something as incoherent, improbable, irrational as the concept of God because of a magic word. Right........

no, you wont, adn you cant be expected to.

[John_Doe]

Yea, im just gonna believe in something as incoherent, improbable, irrational as the concept of God because of a magic word. Right........

no, you wont, adn you cant be expected to.

Why not? Do plz enlighten me as to how you can achieve this state yet me another perfectly normal, biologically identical being cannot?

[John_Doe]

Why can't we just get along? Why does someone always have to be right? Why can't bob believe X, zoey believe Y, and Jake believe they're full of shit without some tension?

@John, about Dopple being Anti-Religion. Look. At. His. Sig. Read. His. Post. lol. It's like if I still ran around with my Obama avatar comparing him to the crazy german guy I would look anti-Obama.

I Baratox. Visit more often dude. Not only about this post, I love your skill in handling situations eveywhere.

The x and Y is what I'm trying to get. Everytime I try to tell John respect our belief, let us live free and we'll do the same about yours, he keeps linking that video of how "respecting religion is etc etc etc..."

@Tasdik & CeLL

*tears* Awesomely put. ^^

Really? If a politician admits being athiest in the US it would be politcal suicide, really? We the athiest, the population that outnumbers the Jews, yet the Jews have way more politcal influence than us are not leting you the organized religions do whatever you want. It because of our Constitution that different sects of Christianity arn't killing eachother off trying to see who has the correct version of ideals. You may be the exception or so you think, but Islam nor Christianity has yet to show me anything that merits their continued existence.

[CeLL]

Yea, im just gonna believe in something as incoherent, improbable, irrational as the concept of God because of a magic word. Right........

no, you wont, adn you cant be expected to.

Why not? Do plz enlighten me as to how you can achieve this state yet me another perfectly normal, biologically identical being cannot?

… you insist that because we are the same biologically that we must think alike and act alike and have like minds. How can I have faith in god but you don’t? How can I think onions are delicious and my wife vomits if one touches her tongue. How can I find zooey dechannel really really attractive yet others don’t? Why do some people like beer and others think its disgusting? Why are some people morning people and others not so much? your question is foolish at best...

[John_Doe]

… you insist that because we are the same biologically that we must think alike and act alike and have like minds. How can I have faith in god but you don’t? How can I think onions are delicious and my wife vomits if one touches her tongue. What if it was an imaginary onion? How can I find zooey dechannel really really attractive yet others don’t? Why do some people like beer and others think its disgusting? Why are some people morning people and others not so much? your question is foolish at best...

Hmmm...didn't know we were comparing God to real things now, I don't know people all have different views on the items or people you are useing as examples, real items, real people, I like onions, why? Because it there I can try it, I like Zooey Deschannel why? Because she is a real person with a real personilty who I think is cute. I've yet to drink that much but can't I say I like or not, no not really, but after more of the "real" thing I'll tell what I think. I don't know maybe if I met a real god I might change my mind? So do please don't put words in my mouth.

[CeLL]

… you insist that because we are the same biologically that we must think alike and act alike and have like minds. How can I have faith in god but you don’t? How can I think onions are delicious and my wife vomits if one touches her tongue. What if it was an imaginary onion? How can I find zooey dechannel really really attractive yet others don’t? Why do some people like beer and others think its disgusting? Why are some people morning people and others not so much? your question is foolish at best...

Hmmm...didn't know we were comparing God to real things now, I don't know people all have different views on the items or people you are useing as examples, real items, real people, I like onions, why? Because it there I can try it, I like Zooey Deschannel why? Because she is a real person with a real personilty who I think is cute. I've yet to drink that much but can't I say I like or not, no not really, but after more of the "real" thing I'll tell what I think. I don't know maybe if I met a real god I might change my mind? So do please don't put words in my mouth.

you are twisting the entire thing for the benifeit of your side of this conversation. you asked how i could think one thing and you couldnt despite our being almost biologically identical. so in the same vein how can i think differently on any subject from you or anyone else. when you are prepared to stay in one lane on this discussion highway let me know, i am more than willing to come along for the ride.

[John_Doe]

you are twisting the entire thing for the benifeit of your side of this conversation. you asked how i could think one thing and you couldnt despite our being almost biologically identical. so in the same vein how can i think differently on any subject from you or anyone else. when you are prepared to stay in one lane on this discussion highway let me know, i am more than willing to come along for the ride.

Why not? Do plz enlighten me as to how you can achieve this state yet me another perfectly normal, biologically identical being cannot?

We are the same, we both have the same senses that we use for empirical observation, you have no abilities that I myself do not process, and reality as felt through our sense are the same, yet somehow you can blantly say on belief without evidence, no tangible evidence provide that you can precieve some invisble diety that I myself cannot and if you pull religion into it, because of my inabilty to will cause me to suffer eternal damnation in a fiery pit..

Maybe I should be more specific and say the "existence of god". Therefore you won't confuse it with what opinion one has about an onion.

[Doppleganger]

We use the word faith in many different ways. When you tell someone to have faith in themselves that is not to recommend delusional certainty, it is to recommend a positive attitude in times of uncertainty. Then there is the faith that religious people give to one another to believe things strongly with bad evidence on very explicit things like the universe, what happens after death, morels, etc. That is the faith that i do not have respect for.

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[CeLL]

you are twisting the entire thing for the benifeit of your side of this conversation. you asked how i could think one thing and you couldnt despite our being almost biologically identical. so in the same vein how can i think differently on any subject from you or anyone else. when you are prepared to stay in one lane on this discussion highway let me know, i am more than willing to come along for the ride.

Why not? Do plz enlighten me as to how you can achieve this state yet me another perfectly normal, biologically identical being cannot?

We are the same, we both have the same senses that we use for empirical observation, you have no abilities that I myself do not process, and reality as felt through our sense are the same, yet somehow you can blantly say on belief without evidence, no tangible evidence provide that you can precieve some invisble diety that I myself cannot and if you pull religion into it, because of my inabilty to will cause me to suffer eternal damnation in a fiery pit..

Maybe I should be more specific and say the "existence of god". Therefore you won't confuse it with what opinion one has about an onion.

off topic, you need to blatantly perceive a damn dictionary.

on topic, it doesnt matter how you try to alter your question, its still the same basic concept. i dont have to fall under the banner of your expectations. you dont seem to see that you are attacking me with a backhanded insult. if you dont understand why i am capable of something you arent, than maybe im not the one with the problem. maybe you need to further meditate on yourself, and why you are different. hey, maybe im more of an advanced evolved being than you, get with the times Homo habilis.

[John_Doe]

If you wish to conclude your comments with sly remarks then so be it.

[CeLL]

@dopple, its a good thing none of us live to accommodate you, or you ego.

yes john, as though you havent made one backhanded comment. o wait you did, "Why not? Do plz enlighten me as to how you can achieve this state yet me another perfectly normal, biologically identical being cannot?" that is certainly not a compliment on my enhanced perception compared to yours, its a backhand sly remark. dont play mr. self-rightous with me.

[John_Doe]

I'll keep posting if you need to come back so you can stroke your ego, and feel better.

[CeLL]

I'll keep posting if you need to come back so you can stroke your ego, and feel better.

off topic much?

[John_Doe]

If you insist.

[CeLL]

god willing.

[Doppleganger]

The hell are you talking about?

[Nick Invaders]

I don't like religion, though I'm not openly against it. I don't really care if there is a god or not. There is no evidence to prove or disprove a god. There will always be at least one person who will follow the beliefs of something no matter how absurd it is. Unless there is overwhelming evidence to prove or disprove a god (how do you prove a non-corporeal being real or not real?), I think we should just leave the religious people alone and let them see if they are wrong or not.

[Smi!ezZ]

Oh, Lord... QQ

[Azilius]

Didn't we have another topic with the quran identical shit..

The probability of every word being exactly alike..Ofy just because you say it doesn't make it proof =|

[EvGa]

I don't like religion, though I'm not openly against it. I don't really care if there is a god or not. There is no evidence to prove or disprove a god. There will always be at least one person who will follow the beliefs of something no matter how absurd it is. Unless there is overwhelming evidence to prove or disprove a god (how do you prove a non-corporeal being real or not real?), I think we should just leave the religious people alone and let them see if they are wrong or not.

There lies the problem. We don't need evidence to disprove a purple flying elephant, there is no reason to have "faith" in a purple flying elephant until given proof otherwise. If someone claims something to be, anything, the burden of proof is on them, not the other way around. Just because there is something we don't understand (origin of the universe), that doesn't justify throwing in "a mystical man must have done it!". Why is that a logical conclusion to draw? It's not.

I have problems with religion because it infringes on scientific advancement, education, and the betterment of humanity. Teachers struggle to teach evolution in SCIENCE class rooms because of religious idiocy. The majority of politicians are religious, and in this country, Christian. "NO STEM CELL RESEARCH! BAD BAD MORALS! Goes against my bible!!" (not really, it's full of murder, incest, homophobia, etc..) I realize not all religious people are like this, hell, most may not be, but a lot in high up positions do hold these ridiculous, delusional beliefs. And they couldn't hold those positions if they thought otherwise. Religion corrupts.