PC Build

poehalcho · Post by **poehalcho** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:47 pm

So me and a mate got together to try and choose parts for a gaming rig. We're both due for an upgrade

Neither one of us really knew anything about this, so we researched what we could together on what makes certain parts good. We came up with something that looks pretty solid in our eyes for a what seems like a decent prize.

I had another friend look at it who's done some PC building, but he was a little busy and didn't really say much. Had us swap out the original SSD out for the MX200, but that's about as much feedback as I got.

Here's the list of parts we got:

Spoiler!

Text form (ez copy-pasta):

Spoiler!

A few things to keep in mind:
- My buddy's buying brand new, but I'm scavenging what I can from my current machine.
- I can save on the DVD, PSU and possibly the box, although I quite like that one and it has usb3 exits, which I don't have on any of my ancient boxes. This allows me to save 77~108 euro's
- For this reason I have also picked out a version of the R9 with a 6+2 PCIe connector. I only have 6+2 on my current 500W PSU.
- The RAM sticks require turning on XMP mode in the bios

I basically only have one issue with this build and that's the graphics card.
with it's 247,90 it sticks out like a sore thumb. I'm tempted to choose a different card. But it's one of few that supports dx12. I've looked at GTX960's, but they don't seem to be particularly much better performance-wise iirc and they come out about 40 bucks more expensive even.

I'm building this with the idea that it'll last me for the next 5~6 years.

So basically... can I get some second opinions? Good build? Sloppy?
Also, anyone know if that XMP mode for the RAM can be problematic? It seemed pretty simple to get done in the bios, but are there any cons to it? is it as easy as it sounds?

BuDo · Post by **BuDo** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:26 am

It was long overdue for another one of these threads uh?....

omier · Post by **omier** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:32 am

XMP doesn't seem to do anything bad afaik. I've had it on for a long time and I haven't heard anyone suggest against it.

Post by **Majorharper** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:29 pm

Screw thermaltake in the arse. I had one and it had a voltage spike. Fried my motherboard as well. I have the EVGA supernova G2 gold rated and it works marvels. and for that price you can get much better unless Europe is really behind on PC prices.. I got my whole set up for about 1300$ CAD which is about 860 Euros and I have i7 4790K, GTX 970, 16GB DDR3, Corsair 730T box, and the PSU

poehalcho · Post by **poehalcho** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:44 pm

Majorharper wrote:Screw thermaltake in the arse. I had one and it had a voltage spike. Fried my motherboard as well. I have the EVGA supernova G2 gold rated and it works marvels. and for that price you can get much better unless Europe is really behind on PC prices.. I got my whole set up for about 1300$ CAD which is about 860 Euros and I have i7 4790K, GTX 970, 16GB DDR3, Corsair 730T box, and the PSU

Care to share exact components?
I'd like to price check what it'd cost in Europe. I believe prices over here are in fact a bit bloated at the moment.
If the price is as you claim, I'd happily throw in an extra 30 bucks for that...

Post by **Majorharper** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:11 pm

poehalcho · Post by **poehalcho** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:38 pm

Ok... I tried recreating that as closely as possible, with the SSD/HDD/DVD included to get the right price range.

Spoiler!

- You got your processor dirt cheap.
- You sold your grandmother to pay for the RAM
- Components in europe are fcking expensive at the moment...
- Corsair are assholes for not recalculating the prices to euro's for that box.

I'll try and rework that build a little, see where and how I can cut the costs as much as possible...

Post by **Majorharper** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:07 pm

Yeah that's weird... My RAM is also faster than the one you included in your build there.. But I have friends with the same build and they payed the same as me, +- a few $$

poehalcho · Post by **poehalcho** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:18 pm

I tried making something in between our builds, but I just ended up shoving 16GB in my own build (lol) and changing the PSU to evga (which I won't even be buying in the first place cause I've got a 500W OCZ StealthXStream I can reuse anyway).

So that basically just shoved the price up to 901,47... which I'm not even sure is really worth it for the extra RAM. I'd probably better off swapping that when the time calls for it.

So instead, I'll just ask. Is my build in the OP generally solid? Are there things I can change around for which better versions in the same price-range are known and used?

I have a 1600x900 + 1280x1024 dual screen setup (only one screen used to play, the other just has chats and stuff). I've already heard the R9 380 is supposed to be kind of overkill for a 1080p setup...

The R9 380 and 970 seem to perform pretty similarly and slowly starting to think I've actually found a pretty good compromise. The R9 seems to be one of the best priced dx12 supporting cards.

What would you make on an 750~850 euro budget? (No reusing old parts)

Post by **Majorharper** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:40 pm

if you skip the ssd it gives 850 euros

poehalcho · Post by **poehalcho** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:17 pm

I'm getting €1183.49 out of this.
I guess that's a lot better than the other build.

I'm taking a few liberties to minimize the price as much as possible:
- I used a power calculator to determine that I wouldn't be using a whole lot more than 400W in this setup, so I opted for a 500W PSU. The 'be quiet! System Power 7'. No clue whether that's actually good...
- I also switched the Samsung SSD for the MX200 because I have had bad experiences with a multitude of Samsung problems. It's cheaper anyway.
- I don't overclock so I'm taking the locked i5 4690
- Went back to the Mobo in my OP, cause I didn't see anything particularly notable about the ASUS one :S (at least for me)
- Slightly cheaper seagate HDD, near-identical performance
- A pair of Crucial 2x8GB CL9, which are on sale. usually €120, now only €80 (compared to the Corsair's €98,90)
- Slightly cheaper MSI GTX970
- Case from OP, cause way cheaper and I like it more. sockets at front instead of top.

Price is now down to €978,58

Spoiler!

^small mistake, that SSD doesn't have SATA. there's another version with SATA for €3 less

That's a lot better priced at negligible loss in performance if I'm not mistaken.

Anymore changes and the build would just revert to the OP...
I can't help but shake the feeling that the 970 is out of place though. Just doesn't feel like a sensible purchase D:

EDIT:

Spoiler!

EDIT EDIT EDIT:
nvr mind. you were calculating from CND...

you guys need your own symbol for this crap...

Post by **Majorharper** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:39 pm

Love · Post by **Love** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:38 am

Buy used parts when possible, i got my evga gtx 970 ssc for 250 usd brand new off craiglist.

poehalcho · Post by **poehalcho** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:28 pm

Alrighty, new build.. sorta. It's kinda similar to the old one but my budget increased a bit so I upped the notch a little. I think I've done about everything I can with it

57.90 Cooler Master B600, 600 Watt PSU
83,80 Crucial MX200, 250 GB SSD
55.20 G.Skill 8GB DDR-1600 Kit, RAM (CL7 8-8-24)
183.30 Intel Core i5-4460, 3.2Ghz (3.4 GHz Turbo Boost) socket 1150 processor
356.80 Club 3D Radeon R9 390 8GB royalQueen, GPU
51.40 Seagate Barracuda 7200.14, 1 TB HDD
64.70 ASROCK B85 Anniversary, socket 1150 motherboard
35,50 Sharkoon VS4 Window, case (2x usb3 front ports, 2x 120mm case fans and cable management).

Total = 886 euro's

I think I'm about ready to order... anyone see any gaping issues?

Also anyone know good mechanical keyboards with brown switches
The Ducky Zero is almost perfect, but most shops only have the red switches version and the brown switches version seems to be double the price where they do have it >.<. I can compromise on red if I really have to but I'd like to see what other options there are...

- Must have numpad
- Cherry MX Brown Switches
- preferably volume control buttons
- preferably no lights
- Small preference for large enter key (the upside down L shape)
- Anti-ghosting is nice

I don't really care about too much else.

Post by **Majorharper** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:15 am

Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia

Razorhead · Post by **Razorhead** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:38 am

Why stick with 4th gen, when 6th gen is out...
Prices for DDR3 RAM = DDR4 RAM
Same goes for the CPU
Only motherboards are a little more expensive

My personal picks:
PSU -> Corsair (CX, CS, RM or AX series)
Mobo -> MSI (intel ofc)
CPU -> i5 (6500) should do just fine; i7 (6700K -> K, has no stock cooler; buy CPU fan for 6th gen K CPU's!!!) if u do CPU heavy tasks
RAM -> Corsair (or Kingston)
SSD -> Samsung (really, they are bang for your bucks) heck; their M.2 costs 10€ more than the normal SSD's... Just pick this on a Z170 motherboard
GPU -> MSI with Nvidia chip (GTX 960; go 970 if u have the money)
Case -> meh; just pick what u want, as long as if fits your needs (ATX, mATX, ITX, ... GPU length...)
DVD -> wait what?
HDD -> WD (Blue, black for game disk - green or red for movie/series/... spins at 5400rpm instead of 7200)

Azilius · Post by **Azilius** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:27 am

I agree w/ spending a bit more and getting an NVIDIA card. I bought an AMD R9 290 and the driver crashes and experiences problems far more often than I find acceptable. Rarely had an issue with NVIDIA drivers which I used for almost 10 years.

On top of that if you're playing many AAA titles, a lot of them have features only applicable to NVIDIA cards (Physx, Hairworks) which you'll miss out on with an AMD card. The Witcher 3, Fallout 4, and some other big names have said features. I'm not sure if there are features specific to AMD cards like those, but if there are I've never seen them.

poehalcho · Post by **poehalcho** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:30 am

Majorharper wrote:Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia

Why would anybody go nvidia when the 390 outperforms the 970 by a pretty wide margin at the same price?
edit: right, gameworks... nope... f*ck gameworks. f*ck nvidia's monopoly shenanigans >_>.

no... I'm pretty f*cking set on that 390. I'll live without flappy hair.

@Azilius
I'm working on an old HD5770, and it's never really experienced any problems. There was a bug with skyrim after an update where it generated some artifacts, but that got fixed in the next update again. I simply reverted the version for the time being :/

poehalcho · Post by **poehalcho** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:42 am

Razorhead wrote:Why stick with 4th gen, when 6th gen is out...
Prices for DDR3 RAM = DDR4 RAM
Same goes for the CPU
Only motherboards are a little more expensive

My personal picks:
PSU -> Corsair (CX, CS, RM or AX series)
Mobo -> MSI (intel ofc)
CPU -> i5 (6500) should do just fine; i7 (6700K -> K, has no stock cooler; buy CPU fan for 6th gen K CPU's!!!) if u do CPU heavy tasks
RAM -> Corsair (or Kingston)
SSD -> Samsung (really, they are bang for your bucks) heck; their M.2 costs 10€ more than the normal SSD's... Just pick this on a Z170 motherboard
GPU -> MSI with Nvidia chip (GTX 960; go 970 if u have the money)
Case -> meh; just pick what u want, as long as if fits your needs (ATX, mATX, ITX, ... GPU length...)
DVD -> wait what?
HDD -> WD (Blue, black for game disk - green or red for movie/series/... spins at 5400rpm instead of 7200)

I had a short moment where I looked into 6th gen, but... that 6500 barely makes a difference in the end. Maybe a 10% gain for a whole bunch of extra cash and effort. Didn't really seem worth it. Besides, games are rarely all that CPU intensive... I can look again I guess, motivation is a little low :/

On a sidenote, I'm not touching samsung with a 10 foot pole. Just about every samsung product we've ever owned has been garbage...

Razorhead · Post by **Razorhead** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:46 pm

poehalcho wrote:
I had a short moment where I looked into 6th gen, but... that 6500 barely makes a difference in the end. Maybe a 10% gain for a whole bunch of extra cash and effort. Didn't really seem worth it. Besides, games are rarely all that CPU intensive... I can look again I guess, motivation is a little low :/

On a sidenote, I'm not touching samsung with a 10 foot pole. Just about every samsung product we've ever owned has been garbage...

A whole bunch of extra effort and cash :/
4590 & 6500 are the same price for me
Same goes for the RAM (kingston kvr16 - kvr21)
and 10€ extra for a z170 mobo instead of Z97 motherboard

Samsung SSD's aren't garbage... just check out the benchmarks
The past 2 years, we sold around 500 samsung ssd's (probably more, not at work so can't check) -> 840 & 850 Series
had like 2 DOA ssd's & maybe 10 RMA's which is peanuts
840 series did have a performance issue; which they fixed with a firmware update
And now M.2 ssd's are on the rise; only 10€ more than a normal ssd, but so much faster

Oh well, in the end it's up to you to decide

I can only tell u what my experiences are with selling & fixing pc's

poehalcho · Post by **poehalcho** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:13 pm

Razorhead wrote:
poehalcho wrote:
I had a short moment where I looked into 6th gen, but... that 6500 barely makes a difference in the end. Maybe a 10% gain for a whole bunch of extra cash and effort. Didn't really seem worth it. Besides, games are rarely all that CPU intensive... I can look again I guess, motivation is a little low :/

On a sidenote, I'm not touching samsung with a 10 foot pole. Just about every samsung product we've ever owned has been garbage...

A whole bunch of extra effort and cash :/
4590 & 6500 are the same price for me
Same goes for the RAM (kingston kvr16 - kvr21)
and 10€ extra for a z170 mobo instead of Z97 motherboard

Samsung SSD's aren't garbage... just check out the benchmarks
The past 2 years, we sold around 500 samsung ssd's (probably more, not at work so can't check) -> 840 & 850 Series
had like 2 DOA ssd's & maybe 10 RMA's which is peanuts
840 series did have a performance issue; which they fixed with a firmware update
And now M.2 ssd's are on the rise; only 10€ more than a normal ssd, but so much faster

Oh well, in the end it's up to you to decide
I can only tell u what my experiences are with selling & fixing pc's

Alright, you've convinced me to at least take a better look.
About the RAM. That G.Skill RAM had the lowest timings I could find. CL7 8-8-24. Lower than that seems pretty rare and often more expensive. I've kinda taken a liking to it

. You sure it ain't worth it's price?

Razorhead · Post by **Razorhead** » Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:14 pm

The RAM u posted -> DDR3
6th gen -> DDR4
I hope u took this into account while checking the RAM

If it's for a gaming pc within budget, u really shouldn't stare too much on the timings
It makes a difference, but you can only see it if you specifically test/benchmark it.
Haven't had any experience with g skill RAM; but I see them quite a lot in builds
About the timings; there is a difference in going from DDR3 -> DDR4
But haven't looked into it much honostly
DDR2 normal RAM were like C9 for normal RAM; DDR3 C11; DDR4 is mostly C15

eg.
Corsair Vengeance LPX -
16 GB : 2 x 8 GB - DIMM 288-pins -
DDR4 - 2133 MHz / PC4-17066 - CL13 - 1.2 V
Only 91€

2133MHz -> standard speed; higher speeds will most likely require Z-chipset motherboard
DDR4 RAM also comes in 16GB version (a little more expensive than 2x8GB though)

G Skill is gaming oriented, so try comparing it to Corsair Vengeance & Kingston Hyper X
Maybe u'll find more bang for your bucks, a lot also depends on where u live for the pricing >.>

If u decide to go 6th gen, could u post the parts

I'm curious :p

poehalcho · Post by **poehalcho** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 2:05 pm

Alright, here's a little 6th gen mock-up build I made... how's that?

Spoiler!

The price would basically be identical if the Mobo didn't make it spike. DDR4 compatible mobo's seem to be a rarity :X

On Alternate (webshop) there's a little message saying I can use low-voltage DDR3 RAM (1.35V) as well? It's not really clear to me what it means exactly. If that works, maybe I should opt for that? are 6th gen CPU's straight-up incompatible with DDR3?

edit: lol, accidently chose single module RAM...

Anyway, I'm not really sold on it... like it's just not coming together. It feel like the gain is none and the price just goes higher, maybe I'm doing it wrong but this simply doesn't strike me as the right time to purchase these components. Compatible parts are still on the rare side, DDR4 isn't yet necessarily faster, etc. I think it makes more sense for some next build in another 5-6 years

Razorhead · Post by **Razorhead** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:41 pm

That's a combo motherboard >.>
has 2x DDR3 & 2x DDR4
Wouldn't use that for gaming though; also ups the cost because of the double technology
Not sure what motherboards u have been viewing :p they ALL should have DDR4

We sell this:
https://www.alternate.be/MSI/Z170A-G43-PLUS-socket-1151-moederbord/html/product/1216157
even for 'basic' pc's (i3, 8gb, onboard gpu)
Why? because it works very well
it's a little expensive (compared to H or B series; but cheapest in Z series) but has everything u need or will need
These motherboards also have high end capacitors, which does make a difference if u want to keep using it for a long time or if the pc has a lot of up time
Those cheaper boards aren't really build for that, just 'normal' usage

Alternate; are u from Belgium? if so check out:
http://www.tones.be
http://www.azerty.nl
They should be cheaper than Alternate :p
Also, what budget do u have/want to spend?

non-related:
just sold this today:
http://www.eizowinkel.nl/eizo-coloredge-cg248-4k.html?gclid=CMzlt8D9k8sCFVTNGwodB3YLoA
+
PC worth 2400€
hooray

poehalcho · Post by **poehalcho** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:16 pm

Razorhead wrote:Alternate; are u from Belgium? if so check out:
http://www.tones.be
http://www.azerty.nl
They should be cheaper than Alternate :p
Also, what budget do u have/want to spend?

Netherlands. I'll probably order from Afuture.nl but I'm using Alternate's very neat PC builder. My budget is 1000 tops, but I'm trying to stay below the 915 if I can.

Razorhead wrote:That's a combo motherboard >.>
has 2x DDR3 & 2x DDR4
Wouldn't use that for gaming though; also ups the cost because of the double technology
Not sure what motherboards u have been viewing :p they ALL should have DDR4

We sell this:
https://www.alternate.be/MSI/Z170A-G43-PLUS-socket-1151-moederbord/html/product/1216157
even for 'basic' pc's (i3, 8gb, onboard gpu)
Why? because it works very well
it's a little expensive (compared to H or B series; but cheapest in Z series) but has everything u need or will need
These motherboards also have high end capacitors, which does make a difference if u want to keep using it for a long time or if the pc has a lot of up time
Those cheaper boards aren't really build for that, just 'normal' usage

Admittedly I'm by far the most clueless about motherboards. I know they hold the bunch together but they don't have a tangible impact on the performance itself so I just can't judge their quality. Hell I didn't even know combo mobo's existed. I was wondering what that was all about...

Also seems something went wrong with the filters last time. When I look now I seem to get a lot more options. Last time I just filtered for 1151 socket, some USB3 slots and DDR4 slots and I literally had like 3 option left in total when I set the max price at 100 :X. Or it's removing a lot of stuff cause it's incompatible with other components I may have chosen :/

Anyway, I don't particularly plan on overclocking and from what I've heard intel hasn't really gone more than a generation with the same socket type, so futureproofing a mobo doesn't really seem necessary. I'm not gonna be swapping parts (unless they break I guess) except eventually installing 16GB's of RAM. I don't really need anything fancy in a mobo at all. ie. That Z-series mobo seems really outside my zone of needs.

anyway, I'll post a slightly modified build tomorrow. I think I can just barely push it below the 900 point

edit:
nope. I found the issue. Can't push it down

That nice B600 PSU is incompatible with a lot of mobo's due to it's ATX12V 2.3 standard. As soon as I select it my options drop immensely. I can pick either pick a nice PSU and expensive meh mobo or cheap mobo and expensive meh PSU's

Can't seem to get it down more than it already is.

Razorhead · Post by **Razorhead** » Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:35 pm

Ok,
I'm gonna post a build on sunday for you, now that I know your budget & preferences.
(have to work on saturdays >.> )

Razorhead · Post by **Razorhead** » Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:55 pm

Was feeling sick yesterday..
Here's my build; still under 1000€ (keeping some of your prefs)
Mostly looked for some alternatives (not an AMD fan at all)
If u are a casual gamer and don't want to run every game with highest detail; I would downgrade to the GTX 960 Gaming (will save u another 130€)
Also did some checking on that R9 390 -> very high PSU usage & very loud under high stress >.>
H110 -> only 2 memory slots
H170 -> 4 slots (but goes to 90-100€)

NOTE:
*The RAM is a pack: 2x 8GB (so 16GB total)
*NO OS

: PC; Azerty.PNG (75.32 KiB) Viewed 12471 times

ltsune · Post by **ltsune** » Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:55 pm

For some reason, I find myself following this thread. Quite an interesting discussion. Be sure to let us know what you end up with

poehalcho · Post by **poehalcho** » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:09 pm

Razorhead wrote:Was feeling sick yesterday..

You too, huh?

__

alright so... I wasn't agreeing entirely with that. Quite the opposite I'm not a fan of Nvidia

. Also not a samsung fan :X
I took the interesting bits out of your version and added them to what I had... so the PSU and Mobo

And with that I think I have a 6th gen build I can be happy with.

So now I've got 2 options.

4th gen

Spoiler!

6th gen

Spoiler!

Afaik, the difference is really marginal. I'm told that 6500 performs maybe 10% better tops (for +20% on the price). What seems better and why?

Also, I saw Quantum Break using the 4460 as minimum requirement... as well as Fallout4 having a heavier CPU in the recommended specs...
Now I'm not interested in Quantum Break particularly, but seeing my 'uber gaming PC's CPU used as a minimum spec before I've even purchased it is making me kind of nervous D:.
Last PC I bought I think I kind of undershot with CPU and ended up regretting a little bit... (like, 85 euro quadcore cpu lol..)

And since fallout is something I plan to play the shit out of...

Basically, is my CPU - GPU power ratio really unbalanced or something? I know the 390 is a monstrous card, but the 4460 CPU should be no children's toy either at 180 bucks...

edit:
there's totally another overhaul coming in where I push the CPU for a 1000 euro total >__>. I'm really sorry for this constant changing of mind D:

Razorhead · Post by **Razorhead** » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:35 pm

No problem

Love to see the 3rd build

I see my gaming pc as an investment; I spent 1500€, 5years ago
last year upgraded the ssd & GTX 480 -> GTX 780
Still running MSI P67A-GD65 + 2600K (OC)
4x4GB DDR3 Corsair RAM
0 complaints (although, being a pc technician helps a lot

)

2nd build is +23€
But why spent 900€ on materials that are 2year old already? >.> Just spend it on new stuff
I5 4460 - 6500 (8€ difference)
RAM (assuming it's 1x 8GB RAM; nearly identical prices)
Motherboard pushes up the price, but there is still a possibility for upgrading within a year or 2
Build 2, will then be 4 years old & DDR3 WILL be more expensive than DDR4 (DDR4 16GB RAM WILL be cheaper by then; so u can still go to 32GB even with 2 slots)
Also, in case of GPU failure -> it's possible the new GPU's won't run on older motherboard (sometimes BIOS flash helps; depends on the manufacturer & the support)

Awaiting build 3 ^_^

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