Oakland, California: Police Brutality, or not?

[Charatsandhu]

About a year ago, a man was shot on a train in Oakland. He had gotten in a fight on the train, and the officers had pulled him out and were attempting to arrest him. The police officer claims that the suspect started reaching into his pocket, so the officer began to pull out his tazer to incapacitate him. Instead, he claims he "accidentally" pulled out his gun, and shot him, killing him instantly.

So I work in Oakland, and the verdict of the Johannes Mehserle Bart Murder Case was to be announced today at 4PM PST. At 3:30 pm, my boss tells me to go home because he said that he didn't want his office destroyed by rioters, so I helped him board the place up and left around 3:50.

Around 4:10, the verdict was announced, and the officer was convicted of involuntary manslaughter, which meant that he was looking at around 5 years of jail time. Almost a thousand people took the streets immediately in what seemed to be peaceful protest, with hundreds of police officers ready with riot control. They thought that he got off too easily, and should have gotten 25 years to life, which is the sentence of second degree murder. As soon as darkness hit, the rioting began, along with looting and other destruction of property. The police described these people as "anarchists".

TL;DR - My question is, do you think Justice was served? Explain your position and reasoning in a civil fashion, without starting a flame war

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/08/BAM21EBDOD.DTL

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/08/MNFL1EBKII.DTL

[DinoNuggets]

yes. why cause he could of left with no jail time. 5 years is indeed not much but its better than nothing.,

[Jstar1]

Our country has so many problems in its health system, its legal system, and governing system. It surprises me that the country can even roll along like this.

And I always wondered, why the fuck do they hold the trial so long after the crime? If there is one characteristic of china that america should emulate, it is the punishment system. There is a murderer? A rapist? Why can't we just hold the trial the next week and have the criminal face the firing squad the week after that? But no, we have to spend billions of taxpayer money feeding the son of a bitch who got a life sentence.

fuck human rights groups..if someone did something wrong, they need to be punished accordingly. rapists and murderers do not deserve human rights.

[Charatsandhu]

yes. why cause he could of left with no jail time. 5 years is indeed not much but its better than nothing.,

better than nothing shouldn't cut it though. is american the legal system so fckd up that we can't expect a fair verdict? we're supposed to beacon of hope for democracy in the world, yet we still allow this? and police brutality always goes unpunished, Rodney King in LA, Sean Bell in NY, etc. The list can go on forever. The police is not exempt from the law, but it always seems like they get special treatment.

Our country has so many problems in its health system, its legal system, and governing system. It surprises me that the country can even roll along like this.

I sometimes wonder this too. then i remember that corporations make this country run, and their filthy rich -_-

[Reise]

There needs to be zero tolerance for these police "accidents."

Great power, responsibility, etc.

[EvGa]

And I always wondered, why the fuck do they hold the trial so long after the crime? If there is one characteristic of china that america should emulate, it is the punishment system. There is a murderer? A rapist? Why can't we just hold the trial the next week and have the criminal face the firing squad the week after that? But no, we have to spend billions of taxpayer money feeding the son of a bitch who got a life sentence.

fuck human rights groups..if someone did something wrong, they need to be punished accordingly. rapists and murderers do not deserve human rights.

Because there are never innocent people convicted... holy shit.

The act of unlawfully killing another human being unintentionally.

Most unintentional killings are not murder but involuntary manslaughter. The absence of the element of intent is the key distinguishing factor between voluntary and involuntary manslaughter. In most states involuntary manslaughter results from an improper use of reasonable care or skill while performing a legal act, or while committing an act that is unlawful but not felonious.

Sounds like he was sentenced fairly. Also, he can get anywhere from 5 to 14 years.

[Jstar1]

Ok, for the accused who deny their crime and if there isn't enough evidence obviously we shouldn't kill them. But if the evidence is clear/the guy admits it, why do we have to drag the whole process out for so long? waste of taxpayer money, waste of time, waste of resources. I once read that executing someone costs more than putting him in jail for life. Why is the system like this? This is a problem that the government needs to fix. If there is a clear reason that someone should get the death punishment (serial killing, murder, multiple raping, or any other kind of disgusting crime), why can't they just put a bullet in the guys head the next day.

I sound cold but why don't people spread the facts out and see the problem here? If we all know someone did a crime worthy of death sentence, why can't they just carry it out immediately? Why wait 6 months or a year, why so complicated? The irony of human rights groups is that while they stand for fair and equal treatment of human beings, their efforts often does the exact opposite. Does a murderer or rapist deserve the same treatment as a regular dude?

There is a problem with the legal system..too much about making money and not enough about keeping our society safe and punishing the bad guys.

[EvGa]

Ok, that makes more sense put like that. If someone is convicted of a death sentence and is guilty beyond any doubt (DNA testing comes to mind, things of that nature) then yes, they should have a bullet put in their head, quickly. The 'inhumane' argument is void in this case, a large caliber hollow-point to the temple is not going to cause any suffering. The only thing inhumane is the scene witnessed by those who have to see their head explode or have to clean up the mess. I'm also sure there are lethal injections that wouldn't cost thousands to concoct. So, we agree there.

/off topic tangent end

[XMoshe]

There needs to be zero tolerance for these police "accidents."

Great power, responsibility, etc.

But he's also human, and humans make mistakes. Yes it's a mistake he shouldn't make as an officer that carries a gun with live ammunition but it can still happen. I agree he should be punished but I don't think he should've gotten that 25 years for 2nd degree murder. 5 seems kinda low though.

[ApocalypticDeath]

Police in America are too trigger happy and in many cases like this one careless.. how can you confuse a taser with a gun? even under pressure you are trained to tackle this sort of stuff.. so imo a longer sentence would have been better.

[dom]

How could this be prevented?

The guy should have not gotten into a fight on the train.

The situation for a potential accident was created because the man was fighting on the train. Sure it's sad that he got shot but it could have been avoided if he would have respected his responsibility to society.

The policeman made a mistake, it was costly but it was a mistake none the less.

Getting into a fight and getting arrested is not a mistake.

[Gladiator_RN]

Thats what you get when you allow anyone to have a gun in your pockets.

[Reise]

How could this be prevented?

The guy should have not gotten into a fight on the train.

The situation for a potential accident was created because the man was fighting on the train. Sure it's sad that he got shot but it could have been avoided if he would have respected his responsibility to society.

The policeman made a mistake, it was costly but it was a mistake none the less.

Getting into a fight and getting arrested is not a mistake.

lol

Don't get into a fight, you might make me mess up and shoot you in the face. Even though I'm a cop and I should know the difference between a light plastic tazer and a 2 pound metal 9mm handgun.

Honestly, zero tolerance. Give the shithead life and maybe police will think twice about grabbing for their gun/derp tazer at the first sign of danger. Pigs look for any reason to draw their weapon as it is.

[XemnasXD]

Accidentally pulled out his gun and shot someone? It's a heat of the moment situation but what if that officer had, in the heat of the moment, missed and killed a child...Do you say the civilian is responsible for causing the officer to draw his gun? The child responsible for being in the wrong place? The Officer responsible or drawing and using the wrong weapon completely ignoring his training and duty?

Dom is quick to shift blame from the officer to the civilian under the good argument that the civilian shouldn't have been disrupting society. However, if we lived in a world where no civilian disrupted society then we wouldn't need cops in the first place. However we do need cops because bad things happen and we give those cops certain privileges under the condition that they follow and uphold their duty. I think that a cop who pulls the wrong weapon and fires it is a cop who is not upholding his duty and therefore the blame of the death lies not with the unarmed citizen but with the officer who was not acting like an officer. Just go watch some cop taser videos on youtube and replace the tasering with image of the cop shooting and killing that person. It's not right, its unacceptable, its not the way a police officer should react.


That being said i think that if he was only charged with murder and not gross negligence or something else that punished him for the lack of training and incompetence that he displayed that endangered alot of people and ended up killing one person then something is wrong. Calling it flat out murder may be going too far but just getting off with involuntary manslaughter isn't going far enough...

I'm used to trigger happy unreliable cops though, I'm more disturbed by the looting and destroying of your own community which will solve and change nothing and gives cops more excuses to be trigger happy...

It's a sad situation from start to finish...

[Squirt]

I call bullshit on the officer.
First of all don't guns have some sort of safety that have to be on so that they don't fire while your walking etc??

[EvGa]

I call bullshit on the officer.
First of all don't guns have some sort of safety that have to be on so that they don't fire while your walking etc??

Not the gun in question here. Some also have grip safeties: you grab the grip and your hand depresses the safety on the rear of the grip. However, I don't think many police issue handguns have safeties. That's not something you want to struggle with in the heat of a life or death situation. In this case the question of whether there was a safety is a moot point, if you want to argue from that angle discuss the fact he needed to unholster it (unclip one or two straps). Even then, I think it is a moot point, having trained with a handgun, unholstering it becomes second nature. (in before, not shooting someone is second nature)

[CrimsonNuker]

There needs to be zero tolerance for these police "accidents."

Great power, responsibility, etc.

[CeLL]

i agree that there should be 0 tolerance. the silver lining in this story is that he is a cop, in jail, for up to 5 years. hes probably going to be getting his ass beat constantly. hell get his justice, just give it time.

[EvGa]

Thats what you get when you allow anyone to have a gun in your pockets.

Terrible argument.

Also, all you saying he should get 'more than 5yrs', he could get upto 14, it's UP TO 14 not 5.

O’Malley said Mehserle faces two, three or four years in state prison for his involuntary manslaughter conviction, plus another three to 10 years for using a gun.

[McLovin1t]

Reminds me of the Rodney King case.

[MrJoey]

You know that a cop as a prisoner is gonna get farked up big time. "5 years" is enough.

[McLovin1t]

Thats what you get when you allow anyone to have a gun in your pockets.

Terrible argument.

Also, all you saying he should get 'more than 5yrs', he could get upto 14, it's UP TO 14 not 5.

O’Malley said Mehserle faces two, three or four years in state prison for his involuntary manslaughter conviction, plus another three to 10 years for using a gun.

Like a cop is going to serve 10 years for gun charges...

[*BlackFox]

What the hell, Only five years? That's farked up!

The police officer claims that the suspect started reaching into his pocket, so the officer began to pull out his tazer to incapacitate him. Instead, he claims he "accidentally" pulled out his gun, and shot him, killing him instantly

Seriously.. This doesn't exactly sounds like a mistake.

[Ownage]

Well they could've gave him like 10 years but the fact of the matter is when he comes out he won't have a job as a cop anymore.

Thing that piss's me off is a lot of the protestors nowadays. They Farking say they want to help the community well if you want to help it don't be violent and Farking loot shit. I think the cops should just send them to the firing squad.

[EvGa]

On July 8, 2010, the jury informed the court that they had reached a verdict by 2:10 p.m. The deliberations with this jury panel totaled six and a half hours over the course of two days. At approximately 4 p.m., the jury found Johannes Mehserle guilty of involuntary manslaughter, and not guilty of both the second-degree murder and voluntary manslaughter charges.[13] The jury also found Mehserle guilty of a gun enhancement charge that could add up to ten years to his prison sentence, make him ineligible for probation, and force him to serve 85 percent of his sentence as opposed to the 50 percent most state prisoners serve.[81]

Despite $3M in bail, Mehserle was detained after the verdict was read.[citation needed] The next court date, when sentencing will occur, has been set for August 6, 2010.

Come on guys, stop with the "OMG only 5 years!" stuff, he hasn't even been sentenced. Until then, stop spreading misinformation.

[Charatsandhu]

Come on guys, stop with the "OMG only 5 years!" stuff, he hasn't even been sentenced. Until then, stop spreading misinformation.

all the major news stations here are saying that he'll probably get 5 years. there is even a chance of probation, if the judge is in a happy mood.

on a slightly different topic, i'm home from work today because they tore down our office -_- apparently someone had a chainsaw and started cutting through all the wood. the thing that pisses me off is that all of these mofos keep saying that they're fighting the system, but they're destroying private property and stealing. the first store to be robbed was Foot Locker These people wouldn't know civil disobedience if it came and slapped them in the face. Martin Luther King is rolling in grave somewhere.

[nohunta]

Looters should be shot.
Survivers should be shot again.