Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

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nohunta
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Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20090903/pl_ynews/ynews_pl888_1

For the Lazy's:(Not summarizing but the article)


Spoiler!



What do you guys think?


I think people are truly dumbasses saying he's trying to "brain wash" americas youth by telling them to stay in school and get the best education that they can. Lets be honest those kids in china are grinding their asses off in school which is why they are going to pass us sooo quickly.
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

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nohunta wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20090903/pl_ynews/ynews_pl888_1

For the Lazy's:(Not summarizing but the article)


Spoiler!



What do you guys think?


I think people are truly dumbasses saying he's trying to "brain wash" americas youth by telling them to stay in school and get the best education that they can. Lets be honest those kids in china are grinding their asses off in school which is why they are going to pass us sooo quickly.

Tjos os how I see it.
The people who have the chance to get a good ( Somewhat free)education ( americans) Don't strive for it.

People who actually WANT to get a college degree ( Rest of world) actually try.
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

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nohunta wrote:Lets be honest those kids in china are grinding their asses off in school which is why they are going to pass us sooo quickly.


american students need to pull their heads out of their asses
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

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Squirt wrote:Tjos os how I see it.
The people who have the chance to get a good ( Somewhat free)education ( americans) Don't strive for it.

People who actually WANT to get a college degree ( Rest of world) actually try.


sadly that's on the dot

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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

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Americans are great. Gotta laugh at the OP saying grinding.
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

Post by Reise »

Lots of controversy over something so harmless.

You can hardly get high school kids to do their homework and stay awake in class. What makes you think they're going to be "brainwashed" by the president?
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

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MY CHILD DOES NOT NEED TO HEAR THEY HE SHOULD STAY IN SCHOOL! I ONLY SEND MY KIDS THERE TO LEARN ABOUT EVERYTHING IM TO LAZY TO TEACH THEM!!! OUTRAGEOUS!!!!
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

Post by aznronin »

Being an American kid and taking the education, yea America is kinda a joke lol, just by looking at the overall students in NYC.

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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

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aznronin wrote:Being an American kid and taking the education, yea America is kinda a joke lol, just by looking at the overall students in NYC.
aznronin wrote:Being an American kid and taking the education, yea America is kinda a joke lol, just by looking at the overall students in NYC.

Agreed. In Nepal (its north of india and south of china, for those who dont know :P), most students learn algebra at 4th grade, whist in the US just started taking algebra courses (at 8) :\. Asian teachers and parents are much stricter lol.

OnT: People who are calling it brain washing must be idiots
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

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UnbeatableDevil wrote:
aznronin wrote:Being an American kid and taking the education, yea America is kinda a joke lol, just by looking at the overall students in NYC.
aznronin wrote:Being an American kid and taking the education, yea America is kinda a joke lol, just by looking at the overall students in NYC.

Agreed. In Nepal (its north of india and south of china, for those who dont know :P), most students learn algebra at 4th grade, whist in the US just started taking algebra courses (at 8) :\. Asian teachers and parents are much stricter lol.

OnT: People who are calling it brain washing must be idiots


Its not just Asia, it's Africa as well. If you go to a private school in any country in Africa and you were at a 12th grade honors class in America, you would be put in a regular 5th or 6th grade class. I know this because I was schooled in Africa until I was 5. I was learning long division in kindergarten whereas Americans don't start long division until the 4th or 5th grade. We need to step our education game up. We can do so little and get accepted into the best colleges in the world, while other can do so much and not. Stop wasting this opportunity
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

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@China > USA Comment: They know more in China because the education process is not prolonged and adulthood is not frozen.
ITT: people that don't read.
<EDIT>
It's not the speech people are complaining about, it's the way it's delivered. Suggesting students answer questions that require glorification of the government & president sounds like indoctrination. Those people are not in the wrong. It has nothing to do with having their children educated, and leaving it up to individual teachers is just ugh. The speech should be aired in (if possible) all schools but not in all classrooms. You want to watch the speech go to rooms X, Y, and Z, you want to learn for the day stay in class. You want to answer questions after the speech? Stay in X, Y, and Z. Everyone happy. No bitching.


"It's one thing for a president to encourage all kids to work hard and stay in school – that's a reasonable use of the bully pulpit. It's another thing entirely, however, to have the U.S. Department of Education send detailed instructions to public schools nationwide on how to glorify the president and the presidency, and push them to drive social change."


"The fact that people want to keep their kids from hearing the President of the United States encourage them to do well in school shows a true level of ignorance."


^It has nothing to do with the content of the speech, it's the proposed work that will follow.

I like how they mentioned Reagan & Bush. :roll:
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

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UnbeatableDevil wrote:algebra at 4th grade


Uh...

So they must be doing long division by the end of first? Fractions and percentages by 2nd? Geometry by 3rd?

I dunno about that, broski.
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

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Reise wrote:
UnbeatableDevil wrote:algebra at 4th grade


Uh...

So they must be doing long division by the end of first? Fractions and percentages by 2nd? Geometry by 3rd?

I dunno about that, broski.


Long division is way earlier. In Nigeria schooling starts around 2 iirc, Uni is 15/16. My old math books should still be lying around my house, but yes, my mom attempted to teach me Serious math when I was like 6 lulz. Asian & African Parents are intense.

Other countries get em in & out early to join the workforce. On average, when do Americans enter the workforce? When does school end for most? Who benefits from a prolonged education and less competition for jobs?

What is a Union for over 9000
What are child labor laws for over 9000
What is compulsory education for over 9000
What is indoctrination for over 9000
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

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Reise wrote:
UnbeatableDevil wrote:algebra at 4th grade


Uh...

So they must be doing long division by the end of first? Fractions and percentages by 2nd? Geometry by 3rd?

I dunno about that, broski.

I remember doing multiplications @ UKG (thats kindergarten in the US, age 5). I remember learning long division at first grade. And yeah fractions and LCM/GCF are taught at 3rd grade. Geometry is later on.
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

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Reise wrote:
UnbeatableDevil wrote:algebra at 4th grade


Uh...

So they must be doing long division by the end of first? Fractions and percentages by 2nd? Geometry by 3rd?

I dunno about that, broski.


algebra in 4th grade is pretty exaggerated. But I know in Korea (and probably china and japan too) middle school students and high school freshman are already doing trigonometry. And by senior year 99% of them finish calculus or even calculus II. I'm telling you if american parents and american students could see what they are going to be up against 10 years from now I bet they would put down that cell phone, that xbox, that gameboy...
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

Post by .Banshee »

Barotix wrote: Asian & African Parents are intense


True, my mom used to slap me if I got my long division problems wrong
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

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Barotix wrote:
Reise wrote:
UnbeatableDevil wrote:algebra at 4th grade


Uh...

So they must be doing long division by the end of first? Fractions and percentages by 2nd? Geometry by 3rd?

I dunno about that, broski.


Long division is way earlier. In Nigeria schooling starts around 2 iirc, Uni is 15/16. My old math books should still be lying around my house, but yes, my mom attempted to teach me Serious math when I was like 6 lulz. Asian & African Parents are intense.

Other countries get em in & out early to join the workforce. On average, when do Americans enter the workforce? When does school end for most? Who benefits from a prolonged education and less competition for jobs?

What is a Union for over 9000
What are child labor laws for over 9000
What is compulsory education for over 9000
What is indoctrination for over 9000


Long division before first grade? There is a limit to what kids at a certain age can understand. Just because school starts at two doesn't mean they should be capable of long division by 6. Even if you mom tried to teach you and even if she was successful i doubt that would work for most kids. I would expect them to be able to parrot what they are being taught at most but to actually understand the concept and apply it, i haven't see anything like that and i grew up in the education industry.

I tried looking up the Nigerian school cirriculum or information on how the students are taught, information was scant all i could get on it was what was on wiki and it disagrees with what you say for the most part. Actual schooling starts at around 6 and then they follow a similar 12 year format like we do over here. I've yet to see or hear of an education system that has the average kids with average upbringing completing lessons like long division by the age most kids enter kindergarten. It is a learning process and children take time to develop and practice and understand.

Don't get me wrong. My mother enrolled me in a Montessori school by age 3 and when i came out at age 5 i was capable of doing the work of a 3rd or 4th grader. Im not saying its impossible to teach a child long division im just saying that the child that masters and understands it completely by age 5 would have to be intelligent. The average student would not be able to keep up with that kind of curriculum and even at the montessori school my progress was seen as above average.
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

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=| Must be a private school (or dedicated [read: overzealous] parent) thing.
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

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Jstar1 wrote:algebra in 4th grade is pretty exaggerated. But I know in Korea (and probably china and japan too) middle school students and high school freshman are already doing trigonometry. And by senior year 99% of them finish calculus or even calculus II. I'm telling you if american parents and american students could see what they are going to be up against 10 years from now I bet they would put down that cell phone, that xbox, that gameboy...



No it's not. I had a korean exchange student my junior and senior year of high school, that guy had already done calc 1-3, and had even helped publish a math book >_>. US education = fail. Closest thing you can get to compete is by hoping your high school has some kind of international fusion program that tries to put you at the same pace as other high schools around the world.


Algebra in 4th grade doesn't seem very exaggerated, maybe only slightly. If a child can understand the concept of using a letter to represent and number, than he can do Algebra 1. I'm sure most kids are able to do it, they just don't have the necessary push and drive from home and school. I remember when I took algebra 1 for fun over the summer the year before entering high school, I saw a 9 year old asian kid in there. I was like wtf, he must think it's daycare. Than I saw him rant off pie to like 20 digits and watched him end up getting higher grade than half the other kids >_>.

Asians, either we succeed, or we're dis-owned... yea... it's that tough.
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

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XemnasXD wrote:
Barotix wrote:
Reise wrote:
Uh...

So they must be doing long division by the end of first? Fractions and percentages by 2nd? Geometry by 3rd?

I dunno about that, broski.


Long division is way earlier. In Nigeria schooling starts around 2 iirc, Uni is 15/16. My old math books should still be lying around my house, but yes, my mom attempted to teach me Serious math when I was like 6 lulz. Asian & African Parents are intense.

Other countries get em in & out early to join the workforce. On average, when do Americans enter the workforce? When does school end for most? Who benefits from a prolonged education and less competition for jobs?

What is a Union for over 9000
What are child labor laws for over 9000
What is compulsory education for over 9000
What is indoctrination for over 9000


Long division before first grade? There is a limit to what kids at a certain age can understand. Just because school starts at two doesn't mean they should be capable of long division by 6. Even if you mom tried to teach you and even if she was successful i doubt that would work for most kids. I would expect them to be able to parrot what they are being taught at most but to actually understand the concept and apply it, i haven't see anything like that and i grew up in the education industry.

I tried looking up the Nigerian school cirriculum or information on how the students are taught, information was scant all i could get on it was what was on wiki and it disagrees with what you say for the most part. Actual schooling starts at around 6 and then they follow a similar 12 year format like we do over here. I've yet to see or hear of an education system that has the average kids with average upbringing completing lessons like long division by the age most kids enter kindergarten. It is a learning process and children take time to develop and practice and understand.

Don't get me wrong. My mother enrolled me in a Montessori school by age 3 and when i came out at age 5 i was capable of doing the work of a 3rd or 4th grader. Im not saying its impossible to teach a child long division im just saying that the child that masters and understands it completely by age 5 would have to be intelligent. The average student would not be able to keep up with that kind of curriculum and even at the montessori school my progress was seen as above average.

The thing is, usually all students do is memorize..and memorize..and memorize. Supposedly, in the US, the teachers explain why 2+2=4 by demonstrating 2 groups of 2 apples and putting them together to teach the students why the answer is the answer. In Nepal, they say 2+2=4, and thats it. You would know the answer, but won't know why thats the answer. later they get on to the gist.

BTW, I am talking about private schools, they start usually at age 2/3 (called Nursery) then there is LKG then UKG and finally 1st grade. Kids around 3 have more work to do there than kids that are in 1st grade in the US.

Goseki wrote:Asians, either we succeed, or we're dis-owned... yea... it's that tough.

This. But its more of getting beaten rather than being dis-owned :P. I remember when i was 4 years old my teacher hit me (and my classmates) w/ a stick for forgetting the national anthem, while the kids in Nursery memorized it -_-
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

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UnbeatableDevil wrote:The thing is, usually all students do is memorize..and memorize..and memorize. Supposedly, in the US, the teachers explain why 2+2=4 by demonstrating 2 groups of 2 apples and putting them together to teach the students why the answer is the answer. In Nepal, they say 2+2=4, and thats it. You would know the answer, but won't know why thats the answer. later they get on to the gist.


In most of the classes I had through elementary, middle, and high school all they did was tell you This = this, and that was the end of it. It was just knowledge retention and you being able to regurgitate that back exactly as you're taught. Most didn't even care to delve deeper into the "why" you did or did not get to this answer.

If none of you know of Bloom's Taxonomy, think I'll do a simple summary: There's 6 levels of "learning." At the very bottom you have Knowledge, then above that you have Understanding, and you work your way up to Evaluation.

Evaluation - Can you create a new position? Select, predict, value, etc.
Synthesis - Can you defend a position or decision? Compose, argue, formulate, etc.
Analysis - Can you distinguish between the different parts? Employ, interpret, solve, differentiate, etc.
Application - Can you apply that understanding and knowledge in a new way? Demonstrate, choose, illustrate, etc.
Understanding - Can you explain the ideas/concepts? Report, clarify, paraphrase, etc.
Knowledge - Basic regurgitation of the knowledge. List, define, reproduce, etc.

Most of what I've experienced through the years is the lower 3 levels of learning, with the most being in the "Knowledge" level. I'd imagine it's the same for a lot of other people. To actually understand the "why" I had to do it for myself a lot of times.
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

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Goseki wrote:No it's not. I had a korean exchange student my junior and senior year of high school, that guy had already done calc 1-3, and had even helped publish a math book >_>. US education = fail. Closest thing you can get to compete is by hoping your high school has some kind of international fusion program that tries to put you at the same pace as other high schools around the world.


Algebra in 4th grade doesn't seem very exaggerated, maybe only slightly. If a child can understand the concept of using a letter to represent and number, than he can do Algebra 1. I'm sure most kids are able to do it, they just don't have the necessary push and drive from home and school. I remember when I took algebra 1 for fun over the summer the year before entering high school, I saw a 9 year old asian kid in there. I was like wtf, he must think it's daycare. Than I saw him rant off pie to like 20 digits and watched him end up getting higher grade than half the other kids >_>.

Asians, either we succeed, or we're dis-owned... yea... it's that tough.



You guys are making it sound like all asians are doing algebra by 4th grade and calc 1-3 by 9th grade. That is just bull shit. I've definitely seen asian exchange students and they don't all fit your profile. I've seen plenty even in college that doesn't fit your profile.

The american education system is far from the best but its not bad if you know where how kids should be educated. And no where in the world is there a school full of 6 year olds doing algebra. Thats not happening. Stop abusing the stereotypes. You guys have no idea how a developing mind works or how it processes information. If you teach a child to young to start using letters to represent numbers can you imagine what that would do to his writing. Its not as easy as you are trying to make it out to sound and the world isn't full of geniuses in waiting. The kids who can do that kind of stuff are rare. Obviously culture plays a large role and other cultures focus more on education than american society does but that is the only reason why they have the advantage they do. If i recall correctly most japanese and Korean kids don't get a 3 month break every year. The difference is simply curriculum but even with that taken into account there are limits. The average person, no matter what their upbringing will not be able to learn algebra by age 6 or even 10 and they will not learn calculus 1-3 by 9th grade.
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

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^My sisters and mom started algebra at 4th grade. It was the basic concepts though, more like pre-algebra.
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

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what is pre-algebra...

nvm i googled it. pre-algebra isn't complex. at that age its more like fill in the blank than actual algebra. That shouldn't be complex for a 10 year old who has developed basic math skills. I would be very surprised if you told me they were doing y^2-x^5/3x+45 by 5th or 6th grade...7th or 8th is more likely
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

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Xemnas I'm aware of that. There are average students everywhere. However, there are 2 groups of asians at college. Are you sure the ones you speak of are from the US or actually from an Asian country? The ones I've seen that are from another country, rarely party, are always studying, and ace almost everything they do. The other half, keep inviting me to frat parties, get preggers, and leave 2 semesters later >_>.

Asians are often SEEMED to be smarter for 2 reasons. The ones that try hard at school usually have a family forcing them to do good. The ones that break the stereotypes are usually ones that have parents that are too busy working to provide for the family to care. This has held true for pretty much every asian i've seen. Family has good income, kid is smart, family is struggling and always working, not so much.

Another reason is simply there are so many asians. I read somewhere that 25% of China's kid are in Honor programs. That 25% of their kid is > the total number of kids in the US. The normal kids end up in the working force for their country. The smarter 25% either get into schools in their country or end up coming to ours. Hence we see them as so smart.

They are already smart in their country where education is highly competitive starting in elementary. If you had adhd and couldn't focus when u were 5, you were pretty much stuck in the shittier schools. Unless you showed promise at a young age and could test into the better schools, you kinda get screwed. Hence, education starts earlier.

It's a combination of both. The ones that come here are already at the top of their classes. The other reason is that they have a higher priority of education. I doubt asian schools purposely dumb down their entire education system to make the stupid kids seem smarter. Remember the scandal when teachers were found out to be helping their students cheat to pull up school averages?
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

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everyone thinks asians are just naturally smart but in reality its only because they try harder than non-asian students. Genetics has nothing to do with your intelligence. Non-asian students can do just as good or even better..some of them don't work as hard, thats why.
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

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Goseki wrote:Xemnas I'm aware of that. There are average students everywhere. However, there are 2 groups of asians at college. Are you sure the ones you speak of are from the US or actually from an Asian country? The ones I've seen that are from another country, rarely party, are always studying, and ace almost everything they do. The other half, keep inviting me to frat parties, get preggers, and leave 2 semesters later >_>.

Asians are often SEEMED to be smarter for 2 reasons. The ones that try hard at school usually have a family forcing them to do good. The ones that break the stereotypes are usually ones that have parents that are too busy working to provide for the family to care. This has held true for pretty much every asian i've seen. Family has good income, kid is smart, family is struggling and always working, not so much.

Another reason is simply there are so many asians. I read somewhere that 25% of China's kid are in Honor programs. That 25% of their kid is > the total number of kids in the US. The normal kids end up in the working force for their country. The smarter 25% either get into schools in their country or end up coming to ours. Hence we see them as so smart.

They are already smart in their country where education is highly competitive starting in elementary. If you had adhd and couldn't focus when u were 5, you were pretty much stuck in the shittier schools. Unless you showed promise at a young age and could test into the better schools, you kinda get screwed. Hence, education starts earlier.

It's a combination of both. The ones that come here are already at the top of their classes. The other reason is that they have a higher priority of education. I doubt asian schools purposely dumb down their entire education system to make the stupid kids seem smarter. Remember the scandal when teachers were found out to be helping their students cheat to pull up school averages?



Than if you know all of that why post the story of the korean who was writing math text books before he graduated high school in response to the argument of the probability of learning things at certain ages. It seemed like you were implying that such behavior was commonplace amongst asians. Also you go back to generalizing with the Asian/Asian-American thing. There are two types of people at college period depending on the school.
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Ashikiheyun
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

Post by Ashikiheyun »

Squirt wrote:
nohunta wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20090903/pl_ynews/ynews_pl888_1

For the Lazy's:(Not summarizing but the article)


Spoiler!



What do you guys think?


I think people are truly dumbasses saying he's trying to "brain wash" americas youth by telling them to stay in school and get the best education that they can. Lets be honest those kids in china are grinding their asses off in school which is why they are going to pass us sooo quickly.

Tjos os how I see it.
The people who have the chance to get a good ( Somewhat free)education ( americans) Don't strive for it.

People who actually WANT to get a college degree ( Rest of world) actually try.


Not true at all, at least not for me and my surrounding area. America's public (the free part) schooling system is terrible unless you get into the AP or IB programs. My parents had to drop 8k a year for elementary and junior high then around 10k a year for high school and now it's around 20k a year for college. Where's the free coupled with good there?

I;m striving for a good education, but my family is also having a hard time paying off all the bills (house mortgage, schooling, etc), and my mom recently got a really bad concussion so she has only been working half her hours so I'm also working to help pay for everything, so it's sometimes hard to focus on school.

So don't just blindly say all Americans can get a good free education but don't give a shit, that's not true at all. Yes, there's a lot of lazy people out there who don't pursue a good education, but for some people it's either not possible, or very hard.
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Reise
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

Post by Reise »

There are also horror stories of what happens to students in Asia who don't pass their classes.

Being disowned by their families, kicked out of the house, etc.

Mathematics is also not the sole factor in what makes a person "smart" it just makes you good with numbers, whatever f*cking good that does you in the real world. That's nice you can solve an equation that covers an entire chalkboard, have fun flipping burgers smart guy.
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Ashikiheyun
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Re: Obama Back to School Speech For Kids

Post by Ashikiheyun »

Reise wrote:There are also horror stories of what happens to students in Asia who don't pass their classes.

Being disowned by their families, kicked out of the house, etc.

Mathematics is also not the sole factor in what makes a person "smart" it just makes you good with numbers, whatever f*cking good that does you in the real world. That's nice you can solve an equation that covers an entire chalkboard, have fun flipping burgers smart guy.


Though I agree with "math and grades aren't everything" it's those mathematicians that send people to space, try and help you with your finances, get you your pay check, etc. They are helpful :)

And they help with your math homework when you aren't good at math, like me :P
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